Sharp Helmet Test Results

[Paivi]

Originally Posted by Tush67

Why is it the camera is always there when things go wrong?

Don't you know anything about racing and crashing? What's the point in crashing if you don't look good in photos?

[RodH]

Originally Posted by Lucazade 749s

Rod I can not admit!!! What?! Have you even read my post or just replied?
First two sentences:
Rod why can’t you just admit that that test can be correct? There is that possibility, it is on the same level as it being incorrect.

Yes Luca I have read your posts rather than just replied to them.

I would also point out that, the way it is phrased, your highlighted sentence makes no suggestion that you could admit that the tests could be wrong. It merely suggests that the possibility of the tests being right is equal to the possibility of the tests being wrong.

.........I'm out of here.

[Tush67]

Originally Posted by Paivi

Don't you know anything about racing and crashing? What's the point in crashing if you don't look good in photos?

Mea culpa...

[Lucazade 749s]

Originally Posted by RodH

Yes Luca I have read your posts rather than just replied to them.

I would also point out that, the way it is phrased, your highlighted sentence makes no suggestion that you could admit that the tests could be wrong. It merely suggests that the possibility of the tests being right is equal to the possibility of the tests being wrong.

.........I'm out of here.

Let's wrap it up as I have 6% battery left. Reading the entire post on top of sentence I highlited also tells you that gov gets it correct and wrong on different occassions. I am aware of that and have that in mind re SHARP.
Now you Rod did not reply to even one of my questions, you just kept on saying SHARP is wrong because it is a Gov test.

One last time? How do you know your lid is better if you only ever had ARAI and never tested other lids in crash?
Now how do you expect a new rider to know which lid is actually better, is it the more expensive one (on which seller makes more money) or the cheaper one?
You need some kind of scale. Scale can be correct only if all items were tested in identical conditions.
Cars before they go to NCAP are tested in PC simulations. A lab if you want and they perform as good as on the test.

[Montana]

As Paivi has pointed out in a post related to this subject, it's ALL about the fit.I, and probably my family too, would prefer that my head wasn't turned to mush because of an ill fitting helmet, rather than one that had one or two stars less than the other.


Andy

[Shoei]

Anyway i'll put my life on Mr arai rather than a pew pew lazer helmet.

manufacturers make racers wear the helmets, to show us what they can do when they crash, this is what all these fancy motorsport racing is all about, wether is yamaha, ducati, honda etc etc, i have never seen any racer wear a pew pew lazer helmet, so no way i'll put my trust on them.

you may well believe we dont wear the same helmet as the racers, even if this is the case, the manufacturer can show that they have the technology to produce such a helmet and will eventually filter down to us, same as traction control developed in racing.

same with the motorcycle we may well not have a motogp machine, but it shows what the manufacter is capable of.

we cant just believe everything we read, sometimes ppl get it wrong or tell a lie.
the test may well be correct for their testing method, but remember different sort of test can always produce different result, just like motorcycle review, you can test the bike at a twisty circuit or test it on a straight line, a hayabusa will destroy an R6 in straight line, but an R6 will destroy the hayabusa in the twisty.

[mickchaganis]

The SHARP test seems more comprehensive than any other test, I think all helmets tested had passed the Euro 22.05 but some got a 2 star others got 5! Manufacturers can look at the 5 star helmets and see what makes them 5 star and improve their designs. I'm sure some of the sales of 5 star helmets in the next few weeks will be to other manufacturers. This can only be a good thing as in a couple of years most helmets on the market will have a 5 star rating!

[Herb]

The market will decide the value of these ratings. If people start buying 5 star helmets over other lesser ratings then helmet manufacturers will start to design their helmets to pass the test.

Thats fine if the test is valid and genuinely reflects conditions in a real world impact. If not then helmets design could be progressed in the wrong direction.

I would like to see the SHARP testing as a starting point, and hopefully they will develop the testing over time, given enough funding etc. This is what happened with NCAP in my industry, and I believe that NCAP testing forced the manufacturers to really design their cars for real world crashes rather than to pass a given set of legislation.

One word about the poor ratings for Shoei and Arai, both of these companies have enormous R+D budgets (as well as enormous marketing budgets) and I don't think there are many companies / groups that know more about head protection than them, so I personally would not place too much emphasis at this time on the SHARP test results. I think they need more development yet to replicate real world.

[Rudolph Hart]

Originally Posted by mickchaganis

The SHARP test seems more comprehensive than any other test, I think all helmets tested had passed the Euro 22.05 but some got a 2 star others got 5! Manufacturers can look at the 5 star helmets and see what makes them 5 star and improve their designs. I'm sure some of the sales of 5 star helmets in the next few weeks will be to other manufacturers. This can only be a good thing as in a couple of years most helmets on the market will have a 5 star rating!

Good post Mickchaganis. Anything that encourages manufacturers to produce even better helmets, leathers etc. has to be a good thing IMO. If the SHARP tests become an industry standard in the way that NCAP ratings have become for cars then it won't be long before the main manufacturers (Arai, Shoei, AGV etc.) ensure their lids all score a maximum rating.

Perhaps we should remember that the lids tested probably weren't built with consideration to achieving a high score in the SHARP tests. I shall be following both the tests & the response of the manufacturers with interest over the next couple of years.

[Johnny]

Independent tests are great !!

If they agree with you or endorse your product they are spot on and so are you. If it’s the other way the test is rubbish. LOL - I am no different.

[funkyrimpler]

Originally Posted by Lucazade 749s

Tell me one thing about your other tests. What do they do, do they test helmet to destruction? Or is it that they give it to people for review and they do not destroy it. They test it for fit, comfort and what it is made from.

A Quote taken from a Helmet test site:

Arai's helmets exceed greatly all of the testing standards throughout the world.
In Europe ECE22.05 is the standard to which all helmets sold must meet.
But Arai sets high demands for Its own helmets - much higher than ECE22.05.
For example, the ECE norm accepts one single impact test on five areas of the helmet
Arai tests each helmet with no less than four successive impacts on nine places. The
reason for this is simple; practice shows that a helmet, during an accident, often gets
hit on the same place several times when it reaches the road surface.
So isn't it obvious to test the helmet more than once?
An example of this in action is MotoGP rider Shinya Nakano's high speed crash at
Mugello in the 2004 season His helmet suffered repeated impacts from 200mph to
.standstill, and he walked away from that accident. His Arai took a heavy battering,
but protected his head securely during the fastest crash in GP history.
Also, the ECE test does not require a penetration test, which Arai insists upon. This is
an important factor for road use, where all sorts of potential hazards can exist during
an accident. Arai has been protecting racers' and riders' heads for well over two decades, in the process turning the art of making crash helmets into a science.
There is no testing standard in the world to compare with Arai's own and this fact,
added to the sheer quality of materials and attention to even the smallest detail found
in every Arai helmet, is what makes each so special.

Nuff said

[funkyrimpler]

oh, and a bit from Arai:

The unique Arai helmet Penetration test. Arai drop a 3kg heavy metal spike onto each Arai motorcycle shell to test its penetration resistance. Again, this is NOT required for the EU 22.05 helmet standard - but Arai do it anyway.

So i would suggest that with Arai's testing mechanisms and destruction processes way beyond the requirements of international law, never mind the lives saved on the road and track, and the customer service, I'd say they were a pretty good bet. Are they the lightest, the quietest, the coolest designs, the prettiest shape..? maybe not. Are they the safest? Quite possibly.
A superbike will be an entirely different animal from its road going counter part-different everything, i personally dont think a lid would have an entirely different construction of shell/technology-the savings alone wouldnt really make it viable. A superbike is over £250k, a top lid less than £500.

Buy what fits, and the best you can afford- Dont get the hump if you really want an Arai, its fits lovely but you can only afford an AGV.
Dont buy an Arai just because you can if it squeezes your head when the AGV is a better fit...

[Lucazade 749s]

There is a point, we will never get an agreement until we know what tests were made by SHARP. I am just naturally sceptical to tests runned by ARAI for ARAI, by BP for BP and other. I wonder if we could get a list of SHARPS tests...

[mickchaganis]

The SHARP test is supposed to be as close to real world testing as you can get without sending a poor bloke(or woman) down the road on his/her bonce!

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by RodH

Sorry Luca, but I think that you are far too willing to believe and defend everything that the Dept for Transport feeds you with regards to the Sharp Test, irresepecive of whether or not their results fly in the face of all previous helmet tests.

Sorry RodH, but I think you are far too willing to believe and defend anything that the Arai marketing department feeds you with regards to the Arai tests, irrespective of whether or not their test results fly in the face of independent tests whose only objective is to give consumers an independent view of the relative merits of manufacurers product perform.

Arai's helmets exceed greatly all of the testing standards throughout the world.
In Europe ECE22.05 is the standard to which all helmets sold must meet.
But Arai sets high demands for Its own helmets - much higher than ECE22.05.

As I understand it, it is because of the flaws in the EU testing standards that the DoT decided to set up the SHARP scheme, because the EU tests are publically defined and so manufacturers can "tune" their products to pass just, as they optimise fuel consumption in the EU car tests, and bikes have a flat spot where they are tested for emissions.

We are all free to make our own minds up, afterall its oure own bonces! I am more inclined to take notice of independant tests rather than a helmet manufacturers publicity.

Btw I knew a motor racing team in the eighties who were sponsored by a particular oil company, and had to pour their preferered oil brand into their sponsors cans in the privacy of their workshop so that no one saw them top up their car at the track with the wrong stuff!!