Hot off the Press - Brands Hatch Round

[Ollie]

Originally Posted by zimbo

I hate to say it Ollie, but, as Lily has been telling us all year,

It's because we didn't get out entries in early, so there weren't enough entries on the day they set the program to justify two seperate grids!

So, entries in EARLY, not last minute!!!!!

But the problem was Zimbo, i spoke to them on the phone 5 mins before i FAXED my entry and they said it was fine no problems to race, no mention about combined grids or that i was going to be a reserve...

...I even called back after and asked if it was recieved...

..There reply, Yes thats fine, i also asked again if there were any problems, No they replied, not mentioning that there were to be combined grids, and that i was a reserve!! If they had said all that then there wouldnt be a problem with all this and kept me informed...i may not have booked in, who knows (i would certainly have given it a good thought)

Its the fact that they didnt.......and still took entry and payment leaving me to think i would be enjoying a weekends racing, i explained my dissapointment to them today on the phone as i will again on monday when i speak with them again and find out how they can justify missing out this information to me.when i blatently called and asked....

...also not even a note in with my tickets to say any of this....

Imagine if i lived where Dan lives and travelled all that way to find out i was reserve, how ****ed would i Be SERIOUSLY is the answer...

I hope that all makes sense as i am seriously PI$$ED about all this...

..entry would have gone in sooner if funds had allowed...

[Dan]

That gets me thinking Ollie..... I have tickets and I have a scruteneers card, does that mean I'm racing both days? I assume I am, but if I was on the reserve list how would I know? If you had to call to find out this information, how can any of us be sure we're not on the reserve list?

This weekend is going to cost me £250 for the Sat and Sun racing, £100 for fuel, £50+ for extras, four members of my family are coming (two from Devon), and I've had to take 3 days (36hrs) holiday from work. I'd sure as hell be hacked off to find out I was on the reserve list, however I sent my entry form off before Pembrey and the closing date, so all should be okay.

P.S: I really need to race, I need the track time if I'm ever to get any quicker. My mission is to just not get lapped by Matt.... oh, and try and keep ID in sight!

[zimbo]

Originally Posted by Ollie

But the problem was Zimbo, i spoke to them on the phone 5 mins before i FAXED my entry and they said it was fine no problems to race, no mention about combined grids or that i was going to be a reserve...

...I even called back after and asked if it was recieved...

..There reply, Yes thats fine, i also asked again if there were any problems, No they replied, not mentioning that there were to be combined grids, and that i was a reserve!! If they had said all that then there wouldnt be a problem with all this and kept me informed...i may not have booked in, who knows (i would certainly have given it a good thought)

Ollie, I am sympathetic, no one wants to be a reserve, but I think you're trying to blame others here for your own mistake. The cut off date for entries was last Saturday and you sent your entries in on Tuesday, three days after closing date, which is clearly marked on the entry form. They may well have not yet taken the decision at the time you called to combine the grids, so if that was the case they wouldn't have been in a position to declare a combined grid or that you would be a reserve. Lily has got onto us all, before every single round, telling us to get our entries in early because there has always been a significant risk of exactly this happening.
I hope you do get to race mate, but you can't fairly blame New Era, it's the rules and it's how every race club in the country operates.

[Imola Duke]

Originally Posted by Dan

That gets me thinking Ollie..... I have tickets and I have a scruteneers card, does that mean I'm racing both days? I assume I am, but if I was on the reserve list how would I know? If you had to call to find out this information, how can any of us be sure we're not on the reserve list?

This weekend is going to cost me £250 for the Sat and Sun racing, £100 for fuel, £50+ for extras, four members of my family are coming (two from Devon), and I've had to take 3 days (36hrs) holiday from work. I'd sure as hell be hacked off to find out I was on the reserve list, however I sent my entry form off before Pembrey and the closing date, so all should be okay.

P.S: I really need to race, I need the track time if I'm ever to get any quicker. My mission is to just not get lapped by Matt.... oh, and try and keep ID in sight!

You will by now be very very aware if you were on the reserve list !.... i

[Ollie]

Originally Posted by zimbo

Ollie, I am sympathetic, no one wants to be a reserve, but I think you're trying to blame others here for your own mistake. The cut off date for entries was last Saturday and you sent your entries in on Tuesday, three days after closing date, which is clearly marked on the entry form. They may well have not yet taken the decision at the time you called to combine the grids, so if that was the case they wouldn't have been in a position to declare a combined grid or that you would be a reserve. Lily has got onto us all, before every single round, telling us to get our entries in early because there has always been a significant risk of exactly this happening.
I hope you do get to race mate, but you can't fairly blame New Era, it's the rules and it's how every race club in the country operates.

But as funds didnt allow at the time to do it sooner it was out of my controll,

That is why i asked before booking, also they mentioned about forms for Brands, i dont even have one, had to down load it off there site, they said that additional forms were sent out for other rounds, what ones are those for as i have NOT recieved any,

I am still not happy with there decision and will be back on to them on monday, they have contact numbers why not call to inform instead of assume that people will just say Hell yeah i will just come on a whim to race and possible waste a complete weekend??

And Dan if you have a White Scruitineering card you should be ok?? Mine is Green!

[ducbird]

and Lily did tell everyone to get there forms
for Brands in as soon as possible, after the presentation at Pembrey
Infact she emphasised the fact

[Steve GD]

Originally Posted by ducbird

and Lily did tell everyone to get there forms
for Brands in as soon as possible, after the presentation at Pembrey
Infact she emphasised the fact

Absolutely correct, Viv, Lily has been very thorough about making sure people know when the cutoff dates are.

Originally Posted by zimbo

Ollie, I am sympathetic, no one wants to be a reserve, but I think you're trying to blame others here for your own mistake. The cut off date for entries was last Saturday and you sent your entries in on Tuesday, three days after closing date, which is clearly marked on the entry form. They may well have not yet taken the decision at the time you called to combine the grids, so if that was the case they wouldn't have been in a position to declare a combined grid or that you would be a reserve. Lily has got onto us all, before every single round, telling us to get our entries in early because there has always been a significant risk of exactly this happening.
I hope you do get to race mate, but you can't fairly blame New Era, it's the rules and it's how every race club in the country operates.

Graeme, the first thing to say is that we accept full responsibility for the cockup in not getting the entry in in time. Also from any consequences that follow from it. Your explanation above about when the decision is made to combine grids (and hence have a reserve list) fits very closely to the facts as we have seen them.
Do the rules state that entries received after the closing date may be put on a reserve list without prior notice? If so, then the Club has done everything needed and the matter is closed.
But if such a rule does not exist, then as a reasonable person it seems to me unreasonable that the club could take the entry fees without mentioning that there is no guarantee of a place on the grid.

[zimbo]

Originally Posted by Steve GD

Absolutely correct, Viv, Lily has been very thorough about making sure people know when the cutoff dates are.




Graeme, the first thing to say is that we accept full responsibility for the cockup in not getting the entry in in time. Also from any consequences that follow from it. Your explanation above about when the decision is made to combine grids (and hence have a reserve list) fits very closely to the facts as we have seen them.
Do the rules state that entries received after the closing date may be put on a reserve list without prior notice? If so, then the Club has done everything needed and the matter is closed.
But if such a rule does not exist, then as a reasonable person it seems to me unreasonable that the club could take the entry fees without mentioning that there is no guarantee of a place on the grid.

Hi Steve, the way the entire club race world seems to work is that the first x entries recieved get a place (usually about 40, depending on the circuit involved - they can take slightly differing numbers on the starting grid) and any entries recieved after that go onto the reserve list. The entry form states "entries close on y date, or earlier if oversubscribed" So, in practice, if the grid isn't full you can usually enter on the day of the race itself and still get on the grid, but if it's oversubscribed you will end up as a reserve even if your entry is recieved before the cut off date, two weeks before. The clubs usually acept the entries of the first three reserves and turn the rest away, the reasoning being that there are inevitably casualties and drop outs during the day leaving the first couple of reserves with a realistic prospect of competing.
I have to say that, as first reserve, there's a better than even chance Ollie will get to race - anybody fails to turn up, crashes on Saturday and hurts themself / trashes their bike and can't get it repaired, ditto for Sunday Qually, and Ollie's in. there just isn't a guarantee! Ollie still gets to qualify and is expected then to turn up in the collecting area for race 1 ready to race, if any of the registered riders fails to turn up and get onto the grid the first reserve is sent out, then the second reserve and so on.
Good luck with it, I do hope Ollie gets a ride on Sunday, I know how keen he is!

[alex vespa]

I am not entirely familiar with the DSC proceedings but according to the other posts it seems that there are 38 riders and ~2 reserves on list. This should guarantee 2 grids. I get the impression NE has decided to group the 2 classes in one grid regardless of the number of entrants. I really hope that a mixed grid in a such short track will not create excessive problems with traffic...I am quite concerned.
Safety should be paramount. I wonder why NE don't decide on the grid after all the entry forms have been received?? I mean, after the closing date???

[zimbo]

I believe the deal was that we could have seperate grids if we could provide 25 starters for each class - obviously this hasn't quite been achieved. There are a lot of rounds competing at Brands, and only so many race slots (actual racing start and end times for the day are dictated by the local council) so there is more pressure on grids than there would be at, say, Pembrey or Mallory.
I think it's probably worth saying at this stage that the situation for Donington will be even tougher, Donington is a popular venue and not many races there in the year so grids and classes are generally oversubscribed there. We really do need to get entries in early for that one if we're going to avoid being in the same situation again!
As for concerns about traffic at Brands, the number of grid slots is restricted on any circuit to the number deemed to be "safe" but Brands is indeed a short circuit so it will feel a bit crowded. Both classes qualified together last year (about 60 bikes) and many of us found it very overcrowded!
Last, New Era will inded have taken a decision on grids after the entry cut off date with the grid class splits dictated by the number of entries recieved. If they've got three grid slots, 40 DD entrants and 48 600 entrants for instance, they'll give the 600s two grids and combine us on one - extra revenue for them, and they do run this as a business rather than for our benefit!

[Chris.p]

Originally Posted by zimbo

I believe the deal was that we could have seperate grids if we could provide 25 starters for each class - obviously this hasn't quite been achieved. There are a lot of rounds competing at Brands, and only so many race slots (actual racing start and end times for the day are dictated by the local council) so there is more pressure on grids than there would be at, say, Pembrey or Mallory.
I think it's probably worth saying at this stage that the situation for Donington will be even tougher, Donington is a popular venue and not many races there in the year so grids and classes are generally oversubscribed there. We really do need to get entries in early for that one if we're going to avoid being in the same situation again!
As for concerns about traffic at Brands, the number of grid slots is restricted on any circuit to the number deemed to be "safe" but Brands is indeed a short circuit so it will feel a bit crowded. Both classes qualified together last year (about 60 bikes) and many of us found it very overcrowded!
Last, New Era will inded have taken a decision on grids after the entry cut off date with the grid class splits dictated by the number of entries recieved. If they've got three grid slots, 40 DD entrants and 48 600 entrants for instance, they'll give the 600s two grids and combine us on one - extra revenue for them, and they do run this as a business rather than for our benefit!

Very true Zimbo, Thing is that all the clubs I used to race with did things for the benifit of ythe riders, E.M.R.A., Derby Phoenix etc, all made sure you had a race, even down to the fact that they would cut 1 or 2 laps off some races to make sure all the entrants got there races in, and only combined grids if all else failed, it seems that N.E. is not the same, a shame realy but as you say Zimbo, N.E. is run as a business, not a club.


Chris.

[Lily]

Ollie

I understaznd your feeling and frustration. I had a situation last year in SOT that made me very very mad.

But to clarify how it happens:

Entry secretary for race sets a cut off date and as entries are received they are marked with dates and put on the pile. They do often allow entries that have come in later to go on the pile as well (which I am sure is what happened with you) at this poitn the schedule is not set.

Once the schedule is prepared it is with Jim at New Era and they have to work out the best way to combine/separate that fits the time available and gets most people to race.

At this point they will look at how many were received by the cut off date and then take any extras in order.

So it is likely that the schedule was not prepared on Tuesday and as such you were added to the pile, however when the numbers were counted it was an obvious mixed grid because even with late entries on that day we would only have had 19/20 on the grid which is very very low and not feasible for them. As such the later entries become reserves and you get a green card as a reserve.

Sadly with the number of racers they have they cannot contact people individually but they are happy to talk to people if you ring and speak politely to them.

[Valentino Rossi]

Ciao....... I was a hoping to ride a bike at brands hatch, i like a the track very much.
I was a told information i can ride for OD2 RACING... who is the od2 ?

Vale

[KtShortcake]

Originally Posted by Valentino Rossi

Ciao....... I was a hoping to ride a bike at brands hatch, i like a the track very much.
I was a told information i can ride for OD2 RACING... who is the od2 ?

Vale

Wow, we've reached the heights that GP riders want to join! For Sure, you can come and ride, you'll be on reserve list though!!

[Earkle]

I understand peeps frustrations and safety concerns but at the end of the day Entry end dates are entry end dates,

I know N.E are wrong not ot say to you straight away Ollie about the reserves but again the decision should have been made to notify anyone who is NOW on the reserve list, which i dont believe has been done.

As for the FUNDS not bein available at that time fella, some of us haven't got the funds at all!! I've taken my recent situation on the chin as 1. I have to and 2. there's always next season, It is a total git, but at least your there for one day! points scoring or not!

The more i thing about it, If i know wot my financial situation was gonna be i would have missed Pems as it cost ALOT more that brands would have done! But i didn't know that so i'm not dwellin on it. If i were you Ollie I'd rant and rave at N.E. as i do believe they are in the wrong here with your case that is, and just use the refund for a test day at donny and the entries!! sod it, then at least you'll have no worries as you would have paid early fella!

Hein sight is a wonderful thing, but i bet you aint gonna do it this way ever again, so something learned, something gained i say