potential engine failure 748s... - Page 2

**The Rookie** · 27 Sep 08, 05:14 PM

Unfortunately someone beat me too that engine, not surprised at that price. Thanks very much for the thought though.

I drained the oil from my bike today and found some significant metal particles (see pics).

The small flakes in the strainer seem to be silver on one side, copper on the other. The grey bit of PTFE-type rubber intrigues me in the picture of the oil filter.

Is this debris in line with a big end bearing failure?

Before I remove the engine what checks should I do to confirm it’s a bottom-end issue? Or is this now irrelevant due to the amount of debris I have found meaning the engine has to come out for a proper clean regardless.

Tim

**Ghost** · 27 Sep 08, 05:36 PM

Yes fraid so take it out and strip the lot, you will have a good one then on your rebuild. Good luck with it. Oh and shim the heads whilst its apart.

**CJS ducati** · 27 Sep 08, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rookie

Unfortunately someone beat me too that engine, not surprised at that price. Thanks very much for the thought though.

I drained the oil from my bike today and found some significant metal particles (see pics).

The small flakes in the strainer seem to be silver on one side, copper on the other. The grey bit of PTFE-type rubber intrigues me in the picture of the oil filter.

Is this debris in line with a big end bearing failure?

Before I remove the engine what checks should I do to confirm it’s a bottom-end issue? Or is this now irrelevant due to the amount of debris I have found meaning the engine has to come out for a proper clean regardless.

Tim

The copper flakes are your big end shell bearings. Lets hope the shells did there job and saved your crank from any real damage. Crank journels can be polished ,i nside of rods honed and fitted with new specification bearings to get the correct oil clearance. Good time to check the pump relief valve and run 15/50 oil indefinatly.

**mad48** · 28 Sep 08, 07:18 PM

Gutted for ya and know how it feels. I went through exactly the same on my 748R about 2 year ago on the A3 when at 7000 miles. It was the Big End bearings. I did not have the dosh to pay anyone to do the work so did it myself over winter and never looked back as know so much now about mechanics and the fact that it's not rocket science! My Haines manual became my bible and everything was bagged, tagged and pictured as I went, it was like a military operation but it worked. I did have help from a mate who had some of the special tools needed.
My Crank was damaged, worn down on one shell side about 2 mm in depth as one of the shells had gone under the other and so just ground it down. Was looking at megga bucks for even a second hand Crank so sent it off and had it re built for about 250 quid.
Once the work was all done it has never run better and it has been pukka ever since. I recently did a complete strip down again after top end damage was caused back at the start of the summer when a piece of pulley back plate sheered off and jammed between belt and pulley which in turn caused the valves to thump the piston and bend etc.
I decided that if I was going to all the trouble of dropping the engine out etc again then I might as well break the lump back open and inspect the re built Crank. Result was the Crank was pristine and the bearings looked like new, I replaced them anyway!
Think about giving it a go yourself fella you might amaze yourself, like I did!

What ever ya do good luck and hope your back out there next year

**The Rookie** · 01 Oct 08, 06:53 PM

Thanks very much for the words of advice, the strip is now well underway. Haynes manual, masking tape, freezer bags and camera are a must!

Worth noting the Ducati toolkit has the 14mm hex bit for undoing the swing arm -handy.

Just waiting for an assistant and a sunny day to remove the engine, then the fun will begin...

Tim

**greggo** · 01 Oct 08, 07:25 PM

Gutted for ya reading this.....Best of luck with thw work mate and hope u r back on the road soon!

G

**mad48** · 01 Oct 08, 09:39 PM

Good on ya Rookie

, you won't regret it. Any advice I can give, I'm more than happy to do so, just pm me and I'll give ya me numba for a natter. Good Luck

**saxman** · 02 Oct 08, 06:27 AM

Good luck mate, its a big undertaking.

**The Rookie** · 11 Oct 08, 05:08 PM

Pleased to say the engine came out really easily. I used an Abba stand (inc swingarm kit) with two axle stands for the front forks, 1 trolley jack, and one helper. Flipping heavy to carry any distance though, definately a two person job.

I am now slowly stripping the engine in my flat...

Before I get too far I want to work out how to set the timing correctly so I can safely remove the belts. The Haynes suggests there is an obvious mark on the flywheel that is visible through the crank case window. I can't for the life of me find one...see attached pic of my flywheel. The marks on the camshaft pulley are all where they should be.

Secondly I am mistified by the condition of the crank case and bearing (where the cir-clip fits). Do you think the damage suggests the alternator nut has come off at some point? Strange...

Tim

**andy.fletcher** · 11 Oct 08, 05:20 PM

if you find you need any parts like a crank etc give me a pm , I have my 748 in bits now.

**mad48** · 11 Oct 08, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rookie

Pleased to say the engine came out really easily. I used an Abba stand (inc swingarm kit) with two axle stands for the front forks, 1 trolley jack, and one helper. Flipping heavy to carry any distance though, definately a two person job.

I am now slowly stripping the engine in my flat...

Before I get too far I want to work out how to set the timing correctly so I can safely remove the belts. The Haynes suggests there is an obvious mark on the flywheel that is visible through the crank case window. I can't for the life of me find one...see attached pic of my flywheel. The marks on the camshaft pulley are all where they should be.

Secondly I am mistified by the condition of the crank case and bearing (where the cir-clip fits). Do you think the damage suggests the alternator nut has come off at some point? Strange...

Tim

Hay Rookie sounds like its all going spiffingly

.

You do not have to worry about 'Timing' until you are putting it all back together, just crack on, get the belts off and get it all apart for your rebuild

.

The gouged mark on the inside of the engine cover is exactly the same as on mine, so must be done during the machining process.

The damage on the bearing is simply someones previous butcher job of trying to get the CirClip out without CirClip pliers

, nowt to worry about, but would recommend that you replace it (use the correct pliers!) as you are going to be doing everything else anyway!

The FlyWheel 'Timing' mark that is seen through the the engine cover window when the bike is all in one piece is a very thin vertical mark which is on the outer edge of the FlyWheel. I can't tell if it is shown in your pic's but it should be there, you don't need to bother with it tho.

All the best

**brian91cfr** · 11 Oct 08, 09:08 PM

If you look at the No5 then move to the left allen bolt
then look up at 12 o clock small nick/mark on the edge
of the fly wheel that could be it .

brian.

**The Rookie** · 26 Oct 08, 01:04 PM

Thought it was about time for an update and I am pleased to say things are going pretty well.

The most challenging things so far have been the cylinder head nuts and the crankshaft pulley nut. Although a ring spanner and a bar (hic!) may have got the cylinder head nuts loose, at some point they need to be correctly torqued on reassembly. I eventually tracked down a home-made tool from a very nice chap in Aus. £17 inc postage was a bargain.
Getting a tool for the crank pulley nut was more tricky. I ended up sacrificing a socket and bribing someone with a grinding machine. I think the result is rather impressive, pic attached.

The cylinder heads are now off and the vertical crank has some play in the direction of piston movement. I would say it is less than a mm so I remain hopeful about the level of damage to the crank. Piston bores look good too.

The next challenge is clutch flywheel & alternator nuts, 186Nm...

Tim

**Benjamin** · 26 Oct 08, 09:10 PM

Hey Tim,

I just stumbled upon your thread, going to subscribe to it definitely!

The clutch is really easy. Do you have a holding tool?

If not, get some spare driven steel discs and weld them together. Attach a bar while welding. That way you can hold the clutch drum in place and unscrew the tight as a 16yo arse clutch holding nut (186 nm!). I´ve done it countless times, don´t fear the work, mate.

It might have been easier with the engine in the frame, because you can support the clutch tool with the foot pegs, but I´m sure you´re going to succeed.

By the way, if the crank has vertical play, inspect the valves and the pistons. They might have been hitting each other. If you have bad luck, they are going to look like my old SPS´ valves

Crooked, bent, mutilated. They´re still on my shelf, as a cenotaph and sign that engine failures can be a new beginning

Good luck!

**snipper** · 27 Oct 08, 06:38 PM

i dont want to steal tims thread but just have a couple questions on this galley plug

i've just done an oil change which i always do when i get a bike and noticed the same little flakes of metal

so im assuming i have caught this in time as the engine runs sweet and have not had the oil light come on .
am i right in saying its a total strip job like tim ?
and if so what parts should i need .... gaskets ect

only done 100 miles since i got it ........ one of those things i suppose