Newbie Questions

[Yossarian]

Good afternoon to you all !just joined the Forum after reading many posts over the last few days. After 20 years of putting off going for my bike licence (mainly down to bottling it when everyone starts telling you of the horrific accidents i WILL have etc etc) i have decided NOW is the time. I am on a Direct Access course & have my test in a few weeks (doing the course over a few weekends rather than in one go due to work pressures) & my dream first bike is the 848 !.On reading your very valued opinons i am a little torn........ it seems we have 2 camps, the first think a 848 is just too much for a 1st bike (& i can definitely see why that would be said) & the 2nd camp of riders that feel its something that can be done if your aware of the risks & respect the bike / power / danger etc. I do fully appreciate both views & i know they are personal opinions, but was wondering you experienced chaps can elaborate a bit more on 'why' you advise not to go for a 848 directly after direct access ?I don't really fancy 'working my way up' so to speak, i am 37 & want to learn on a bike i plan to really get the most out of over the next few years. I won't be commuting as such, it will be for pleasure & fun, but i want to do things wisely. I suppose what i am asking is do you think that it is possible to not 'try' to use the full power / potential of the 848 until i feel my skills are capable, or will i one day surrender to the temptation & open the throttle up before my skills can handle it ? (I am used to fast cars, i know the 2 don't compare, i am just trying to say i understand what happens if you don't fully respect the power of your machine).Also........is it possible to have the belly of the 848 body colour ?.i.e. RED. I love the all red of the 1098 & am not to keen on the black at the bottom of the 848.All opinions are welcome & sincerely appreciated ! Great site & i have to say, Bikers are such a great bunch of friendly, informative motorists & enthusiasts i am pee'd its taken me 20 years to join you.Thanks in advance

[mrs 848]

have you had a quote for insurance? its things like that. i don't think of my 848 as a silly fast bike but i supose its all down to each person. or the whole bike riding awareness thing. you known like your reading the road further ahead and people pull out coz they didn't see you coz you forgot your not a big car anymore.
i started on a sv650 , i loved it (not as much as the 848) but i think i would be alot more upset if the 848 got damaged.
if any of that makes sense. i feel in my head after afew years i'm alot more "traffic aware"and i dont ride crazy.
its up to you!

[dikadams]

In answer to your question , how much control have you got over your right hand ?

I've seen kids ,many , many ,moons ago now, with 'l' plates flappin , trying to kick a 1000 vincent into life ..

So the question isn't a new ...


So whatever you choose , and it can only be your decision.... safe riding ...

Regards .. dik

[nogaromill999]

I have to say I kind of agree with mrs848....I'd be inclined ( tho not tempted ! ) to hone my new found skills on something less capable of biting back.....after all, you pass your test then start learning how to ride a bike.......I'd go for an SS model for a year if you like the sporty type, or a Monster if you prefer the riding position....

[Kenoir]

Only you really know if you'll be OK.
What is it that worries you? Do you think you'll be tempted to go too fast and are worried you'll come off? If so, most bikes will do that to you.
Are you worried that you'll be too slow? Riding a Ducati 848 and taking it easy might make you look foolish (in some peoples eyes).

The real answer to your question is within your own personality. Are you a speed freak nutter or a careful, sensible chap? Do you care that your chicken strips will take years to ware down? Do you want to be Troy Baylis?

Personally, I would say buy the bike you want, it can be done. But I would also say, there are easier bikes to ride than a big twin.

If you want advice, ride within your limits.

[Grib_]

The only thing is, we all have silly accidents when we first start out, over egging it on a wet roundabout etc. and you'll certainly do something similar with your bike. It's upsetting even when it's an old beaten up thing, but dropping £9K worth of bike due to a silly mistake will make you feel even worse!

I wouldn't touch an 848 as a first bike. I've been riding ten years now and the 848 still feels like a lot of bike to handle. It's got pretty much the same power as the first R1s and I'm sure they were never considered suitable learner bikes Sure, you can ride round steady on one, but they're far from the easiest things on the world to use. Lumpy Twin that doesn't like low revs or it's clutch being abused too much makes for a jumpy bike in novice hands.

I understand you don't want to start with something that does nothing for you, but I'd recommend going for a few year old 600 or similar for starters. Still around 100bhp, but a lot cheaper to buy and mend and easier to ride. Ride it for a year, get used to it, then see if you can test ride an 848 and see what you think with a bit of experience under your wings to make an informed decision

[zimbo]

I'm with Grib really.
The main reason I don't recommend such a fast bike for a new rider is not so much to do with the power, although of course that's a very valid point, if you respect it you'll probably be OK but this isn't like fast cars, too much power and spin the rear up on exiting a bend and it's not like you drift the rear a bit and back off to get back in line, it snaps at you and you're off so fast and hard you won't even know what went wrong, you'll just know that it hurts and your pride and joy is sparking down the road shedding pieces of plastic. No, the reason I think it's not the best idea is down to experience, and how you instinctively handle those little situatione we all find ourselves in, where something unexpected happens and you need to brake in a bend and avoid the stationary bicycle whilst avoiding the double decker bus coming the other way, or need to adjust your line to avoid a patch of gravel etc. How many new riders grab the brake in panic and fold the front, or target fixate and run wide into the kerb? Loads! Now give them a VERY fast bike that doesn't feel fast, and these things suddenly happen much, much faster, with no experience the chances of coming to grief on it are pretty high.
Another reason for not buying it straight away - you won't know yet what sort of bike you like to ride, you won't know until you've owned a few (even for a couple of months!) and tried them out.
So, I would recommend a relatively inexpensive, preferably unfaired bike of 60bhp or less for a few months first, and then move on when you're better able to handle the fast bike.

[R6BLADE]

Hey you could buy a 1098, Fireblade, Desmo ... whatever you like as your first bike there is nothing stopping you.

My only advice would be that you probably wouldn't enjoy it as much as something that would be easier and require a bit less skill to ride. But hey if you just want to park it up then the 848 is a winner. At the end of the day all the advice you get here is just that ..... as at the end of the day we will take whatever advice pushes us toward what we ultimately want.

Good luck and keep safe!

[Steve GD]

Yossarian. Without suggesting that the new rider could easily find himself in Catch 22, let me put in my 2 penn'orth....
As Zimbo says, you need to hardwire a new set of the right "emergency reactions", which you will do only with practise. If you use a sportsbike to acquire that experience it will take you longer for a couple of reasons. First, and it sounds like you might be quite resistant to this, but you need to know it is there, there is strong psychological pressure on a sportsbike rider to ride quickly.
Second, you have three types of new skill to learn - observation skills, bike control skills and road riding/positioning skills. (Some of what you know from cars in the "observation" bit is transferable, but some will be new.)
Sportsbikes are designed for the track. No question. That is to say, the riding position is optimised for best high speed control and minimum wind resistance. Which means the ability to see where the road goes is compromised (not needed-rider knows the track) and the mirrors are close to useless (racers don't use them on the track anyway).
So my suggestion for a first bike would be something with a Vtwin of about 60BHP a riding position which keeps the head up and good quality chassis and suspension so that you can enjoy cornering. A Monster, say?

[mahout]

Hi Yossarian, and welcome.

I'd certainly go with the concensus of opinion above. A more upright riding position and smoother tractable power delivery makes easier learning and breeds confidence.. I came back to biking with a Kawa KLR600 single in an on/offroad frame. It rode like a rocking horse, but was good enough to have my knocks with, before moving on to the Cagiva elefant. 750SS engine in a Trailie frame the size of a small dump truck. Huge road presence, and great visibility over the roofs of the traffic in front. It was only after the confidence increased further I got the 900SS. Semi Head down/arse up position, and great performance, but more difficult to get an all round view to protect yourself from the noggins. At £43 per brake / clutch lever it was also not the bike to drop too often.
I now have and enjoy the 999. Respect for the bike, and suspicion of anything moving around me which could "have me off" is second nature.
Sorry about the history of Mahout, but the moral is the same. As my dad used to say "Anything will do to practice on........... saves spoiling a guddun"

Best of luck with whatever you chose.

If you fancy an Elefant, see my gallery and pm me.

Ciao

Mahout

[Yossarian]

cheers guys. I understand whats being said. I suppose its a mind over matter things for me really, my heart is saying its gotta be a Duke & a Superbike, yet my mind is agreeing with you that its illogical. I agree with everything thats being said. Are Superbikes really that 'different' in how they handle than a Monster or Triumph Street Triple for instance ?......in my understanding a Monster/Sreet is capable of serious speeds still ?

I am just struggling with the 'but aren't all powerful bikes going to give a newbie cause for concern when their only experience to date is cars ?'........so if a street/monster is capable of scaring the living daylights out of me, is a Superbike THAT much different ?

I really don't want to be throwng £2-3k down the drain come p/x time when i want the 848, but if its the right way to learn then so be it.

Thanks for the opinions, i appreciate its my call at the end of the day, but i value experience when making decisions & in this I don't have any & you guys do. Cheers

[Graeme999]

No need to cost you anything on px. Get yourself a 600 Jap 4 off e-bay (any decent one will do, I just sold a cracking 1999 R6 - brilliant bike) and keep it for at least a year. Then flog it on ebay. Then look out for an 848 or whatever. Although I have never ridden one, I can't imagine an 848 is a great bike to start on. I had Jap 600s for a few years (great bikes, plenty quick and you learn loads) before I bought the 999.

Whatever you choose to do, have fun.

[Grib_]

It's not just the power/speed that is a cause for concern, it's the characteristics of the bike as a whole. They are not an easy bike to ride when you don't have any experience. I thought the 848 was a fairly easy going bike to get on with, until I hopped on a mates new Fireblade a few weeks ago. That was so smooth, so easy and so forgiving it made the 848 feel like a right awkward sod of a thing!

I'd seriously look at something like a CBR600 FS, so it's still sporty, but a lot easier to use, a lot cheaper to buy and care for to start with and being a Honda, it won't lose too much over the next year while you get used to riding a bit more



They used to use these at the Ron Haslam race school....all standard bikes and they were fantastic A mate had one on the road too and it was faultless.

[Steve GD]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

cheers guys. I understand whats being said. I suppose its a mind over matter things for me really, my heart is saying its gotta be a Duke & a Superbike, yet my mind is agreeing with you that its illogical. I agree with everything thats being said. Are Superbikes really that 'different' in how they handle than a Monster or Triumph Street Triple for instance ?......in my understanding a Monster/Sreet is capable of serious speeds still ?

I am just struggling with the 'but aren't all powerful bikes going to give a newbie cause for concern when their only experience to date is cars ?'........so if a street/monster is capable of scaring the living daylights out of me, is a Superbike THAT much different ?

I really don't want to be throwng £2-3k down the drain come p/x time when i want the 848, but if its the right way to learn then so be it.

Thanks for the opinions, i appreciate its my call at the end of the day, but i value experience when making decisions & in this I don't have any & you guys do. Cheers

Yes, they will, or should give cause to exercise caution, both sportsbikes and other styles of bike such as the Monster. (There is fun there too, in bucketloads, of course). But the riding position of the Monster makes the learning process quicker. In my opinion.

[mrs 848]

even if you rode something else for a few years think what else will be out to buy by then that will make the 848 inferior ( sorry 848 i dont mean that)