Can anyone school me on brake and suspension parts?

[955SP]

Im relatively new to bikes and biking community and to be honest am getting quite baffled with all things brake and suspension wise.

I want to get the suspension and brakes changed on my 955SP (exactly the same as a 916sp) and was wondering what my options would be.

Suspension wise I was suggested by the company selling me the bike to get 955 Corsa race Ohlins fork and magnesium yokes (for narrow track), but these were £3k for the fork and £1k for the yokes which I just can afford.

I the spec on the bike is:
Front: Showa 43mm USD fork
Rear: Ohlins mono-shock

What are my options?
I have looked around the net and only know of the ohlins forks already on the ducatis 'R' etc which I assume are the base models, and then Road and track FG43 I think which I have seen on ebay and the ohlins site are there others what is the benifit?

I assume that the measurements like 43mm are the diameter of the fork but does this mead wider are wider better? I saw a 916 with race speck 47mm ohlins? Were the 955 Corsa ones I was offered probably 47mm? Do the yokes then have to match?

For a 916, 996 etc owner short of the BSB Corsa setup I was offerer what is the top fork for road and track?

Brakes wise I am just as clueless.... sorry. I know that the radials are the new standard now and assume this means they are held by the edges of the caliper and are more stable etc.
I think I would like to keep the bike in keeping and just get some top speck non radials. But what are fully floating? And I have read about different numbers of pads and pistons what does this equate to?
What is a top road and track non-radial setup be (preferably Brembo)?

thanks for any lessons that can be given!

[998gsb]

Hugh - Im not an expert on either but I am sure someone will be along to give you chapter and verse.....in the meantime here is my understanding......

The standard Ohlins forks on later Ducatis (including mine) were 53.5mm diameter. These were made specifically by ohlins to Ducati spec - on a budget. The bigger the diameter of the fork legs, the more resistant they are to flex (a good thing) - for example under heavy braking. Flex causes the steering geometry to alter which mid turn at 120mph ......is a very bad thing......as it makes the bike unstable and unpredictable.

The next step up from the Ohlins on R & S Variants is to go to Ohlins Road & Track. Also Aprillia RSVR Ohlins forks fit well aparently.......


Brakes -a floating disk means that the swept area of the disk - ie the part which comes in to contact with the caliper and pads - is held "loosely" in place by bobbins (a bit like giant rivets - go look at your front disks on the 848 /748) and can move slightly so that it seats in the optimum position when the brakes are applied ensuring uniform and consistent brake application and wear. Early cast iron fully floating disks can actually clank as the bike is rolled forward!. I think all "modern" ducatis have fully floating disks....but these are mostly steel rather than cast iron. Cast iron has a higher friction coefficient and is therefore a better braking surface, but the down side is they are brittle and can shatter under extreme load. Hence most road bikes are fitted with steel disks.

The stock fitment before radial calipers came in where Brembo Goldline brakes. These were 4 pot calipers meaning that there were 4 brake slave pistons pressing the pads on to the disk - 2 on either side of disk - you also get 2 pot and 6 pot calipers.

Your bike was probably fitted with Goldline or P34 calipers......

[JerryXt]

Re using aprilia ohlins: it's a good plan - there are plenty around on ebay and they're cheaper than buying ducati, but you'd likely need to change the springs and maybe the valves to Ducati specification. Harris performance have the parts and moto rapido can do the work for you.

Brakes come in a few flavours. The best non-radial are P34 as said before, but there are two mounting sizes - from memory 45mm and 60mm (maybe 40mm and 65mm - you get the idea). You want 60mm as this will give you a more stable platform and less flex. I've got these on my 748R and there's not much difference from radial in my experience.

There are dedicated race calipers that don't have seals and they're ok on the road, but personally, there's not that much difference between race and road performance and unless you're seriously hammering it on the track, I wouldn't bother.

A radial master cylinder (the lever) will give you good performance, but to get the best out of it, you'll be needing good calipers. I don't know what brake lines you have, but make sure they're good quality braided.

If you upgrade your brakes and suspension to a similar specification, you'll have a setup that will be significantly better than most road bikes being produced today and still have broadly the 'correct' 955 look.

I'm going to get flamed here, but I'm selling my 60mm mount P34s soon... (running and hiding )

[Nickalos]

955SP

You have a load of options to choice from ….. loads and loads. Firstly, I personally would not change anything on the bike but keep it as close to original spec as possible. But that said, any parts you do add can be taken off whenever you want (at sale time), and put aside to be put on whatever bike to subsequently get – assuming it’s a Duc.

Radials certainly do look nice. That they have replaced serial production bikes is more a function of asthetics than performance. In reality a correctly paired conventional pad/disc/calliper setup works as well as a radial setup in all but a few hardcore racing scenarios.

If not for that reason alone, then because the bike is the model it is, I personally would be inclined to keep the conventional setup. That said, the best bike has to be the one we enjoy riding most, and if that means “radials” then radials” here we come … and with that will come a whole load of practical options to consider:

1) 100mm or 108mm calliper bolt hole spacing.

2) Calliper axle off-set (looking from the front of the bike centre line of the radial callipers to the centre line of the discs can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer – albeit there are only about 3 different standard of-sets).

3) Discs – narrow band or wide band (which will impact on the choice of calliper).

4) Disc mounting (only really applicable if you are going to go for a real high spec set up e.g. the Corse front wheels have a smaller diameter hub which limits the choice of discs that can be used), and the axle diameter is also different. So is the calliper off-set ect ect ….. That said, I think the Corse front wheel only comes in 16,5” and not in 17” – so that messes up the choice of tyres avalible. Not a practical way to go unless its going to be a track only bike.

5) Front brake master cylinder – different master cylinders have different id’s and cylinder length which give a different feel with different callipers (depending on the calliper fluid volume).

6) Fork spacing (as you noted yourself) – 2 standard sizes avalible for your bike which will impacts calliper/ disc offset relationship (for what it worth I have a pair of Bucci forged & milled gold chromated Magnesuim triple clamps with standard spacing for sale – in the box/unused – have sent you a pic and price to your message box – they would be a straight swop-over)

You have 955SP, loads of options to choose from, which if pair up properly are going to offer you much the same performance across the board. My personal choice would not necessarily be Brembo all round. PVM make a cracking front disc called the EVO (see attached pic) – and they’ll finish it in grey or gold if you wish. Likewise with their callipers, you can have them in gold, or grey if you wish, other than the standard gloss black:

OHLINS R&T (Road & Track) 43mm forks – with SBK internal upgrade kit, has to be a way to go. A decent front fork, well priced, easy to get 2nd hand and lots of guys around who know how to make an what is already a good fork, even better with upgrade parts.

Brembo (or similar) radial fork bottoms (consider PVM – but they’re not cheap)

Calipers, again – so much to choose from, just make sure the hole spacings on the fork bottoms are the same as the hole spacings on the radial callipers you choose (choose the callipers first then find the fork bottoms to go with) One of the Brembo, PVM or AP radial callipers (best you can afford) – all co’s have a number of options (billet or cast), depending on budget

…. and if it’s billet alloy as opposed to cast (forks, callipers, disc holders), if you don’t like the color there are loads of companies around who will strip them down and redo in whatever color you want.

You have loads of choices 955SP – get what appeals to you most, as said, setup correctly with disc material (cast iron or stainless steel) paired with the correct pad friction material, and master cylinder displacement, you’ll find little difference in performance and feel from one make to another. It will come down to what you like the look of and what you can afford. Always check out the “for Sale boards” and if it’s really top spec stuff you want, go behind the scenes to the places like the ebay shops – there’s a guy in Germany and a guy in Holland who sell some really top spec Brembo race stuff from time to time, often far below shelf/retail prices.

All the best

[955SP]

Thanks 998gsb, JerryXt & nicklazos for your all your advice.

Im still trying to get my head around it all by based upon your recommendations I think I will try and find some FG43 Road and Track, then some of the p34s and braided lines and decent matching brembo discs. Should I be looking for steel or cast iron then?

What about the rear brake? Work bothering with or not?

thanks

Hugh

[JerryXt]

no worries.

Leave the rear - you won't need it.

Cast is good on a dry track but they rust like b*ggery. I've got some and I keep them (hidden) in the airing cupboard. If you want the bike to look relatively standard, stick with a standard stainless brembo semi floating. That will be enough.

Honestly, with the P34s and a radial master, you'll be trying to stop going over the bars on the track. On the road, you won't really notice any difference in the performance of radials and P34s, except that you'll need a little more effort at the lever - one and a half fingers rather than one.

You'll probably hear people talking about (fully) floating and semi floating disks. When they're cold, fully floating disks rattle. The (usually cast iron) disk is allowed to move around a lot on the carrier and is intended to compensate for massive expansion under race conditions. Semi floating move less, but the disks don't expand so much as they're stainless and to be honest, they're newer and made on better machinery so the manufacturing tolerences are tighter, therefore you don't need the disk to move on the carrier as much.

Another good way to improve braking and handling is to get some lightweight wheels. But that's another thread And probably only of value on the track.

[JerryXt]

I forgot to mention - the 3K forks you've been quoted are likely to be race or even WSB spec - as fitted to proper race bikes. I'd imagine this is because you're putting mag yokes on it and they are for the bigger diameter forks. For the road, I'd stick with the R& T forks and maybe have them rebuilt.

Rod at ProTwins is a suspension guru and looks after mine. He's fitting race internals over the winter that will improve the fork for the track at the expense of road performance. That's ok for me, cos I've got my monster for the road It's not a cheap conversion tho.

[kerrygav]

Just get a set of Ohlins FG43 forks like you mentioned and then you can change the caliper mount bracket...i've got a radial set up for my 748, but if that doesn't tickle your fancy you can buy 40mm and 65mm mounting brackets from Harris for approx £90.

Don't go for mag yokes...not worth the hassle, and when on the phone to Harris recently they also recommend steering clear. Billet top & bottom yokes are what you need and give extra stiffness!!!

Gav.

[955SP]

Originally Posted by kerrygav

Just get a set of Ohlins FG43 forks like you mentioned and then you can change the caliper mount bracket...i've got a radial set up for my 748, but if that doesn't tickle your fancy you can buy 40mm and 65mm mounting brackets from Harris for approx £90.

Don't go for mag yokes...not worth the hassle, and when on the phone to Harris recently they also recommend steering clear. Billet top & bottom yokes are what you need and give extra stiffness!!!

Gav.

Already got the mag yokes sadly so going to try and use them if I can or maybe just sell them on.

I was in Moto Rapido today when I picked up my 848 and Wilf says if he could find some the Ohlins superbike forks from a 955 Corsa for about £1500 for a pair which is half what ******** said it would be. Plus he said I should go for a set of monobloc calipers which would have been on the 955 corsa which he think would be about £500 a pair? Thought thatr sounded a bit more resonable. Any reason why Monoblocks might not be a good idea?

[kerrygav]

Monoblocks are great...go for them

The only reason magnesium becomes a problem is when used on the road often, it can't deal with the constant abuse and eventually cracks(mind you, it would take a lot of abuse!!!) and if you crash they won't stand up as well as opposed to billet.

But then again, magnesium looks the nuts8)

Gav.

[rockjock620]

If you're that new to biking, leave it alone and spend the money on petrol. You need to get the miles in before you know what to change and for what reason. It'll be a long time before you can properly appreciate any differences. FWIW. Sorry.

[955SP]

Originally Posted by rockjock620

If you're that new to biking, leave it alone and spend the money on petrol. You need to get the miles in before you know what to change and for what reason. It'll be a long time before you can properly appreciate any differences. FWIW. Sorry.

1. If I was that sensible I would have got a BMW instead of a Ducati.
2. And if I was that patient I wouldnt have got a 748 as my first bike or have to buy the first 848 out even if it is in the thick of winter!

[rockjock620]

Originally Posted by 955SP

1. If I was that sensible I would have got a BMW instead of a Ducati.
2. And if I was that patient I wouldnt have got a 748 as my first bike or have to buy the first 848 out even if it is in the thick of winter!

I was trying to be helpful. If you ARE new to biking then there are (or should be) many other things to get right and get used to before considering upgrades or alterations. You mention nothing about getting more training, or that indeed there is anything actually concerning you about the bike or kit that you have bought.

New bikers have enough to learn with the bike in standard trim. You, as a newbie, will not be able to ride beyond the limits of any decent road bike, even with it in standard trim and set up. Most modern bikes will give you a range of adjustments that will be sufficient. You can still get out of shape and still get just as damaged whether you ride a beemer or a duke - if and when you do get it wrong.

You will benefit more from miles spent in the saddle learning how to ride what you have got, rather than trying to "upgrade" your way forward. I have seen it happen so many times. It doesn't work. If you want to be safe, confident and make progress then keep things simple to start with. There are many experiences you need to get under your belt first. Proper and accurate throttle and brake control, correct use of gears and revs, cornering speed, hazard perception, smooth and correct choice of lines, road positioning on straight roads and of course approach to, riding through and exiting corners, all take time to master and are something you can work on at no cost - it's down to you at the end of the day.

Once again, just trying to be positive and helpful. You can buy as many upgrades and change as much as you want - the tarmac will hurt just as much if you can't ride properly, safely and wisely.

[Rob998]

Rockjock, I totally agree with what you're saying, but if you haven't had the opportunity to follow what 955SP has been upto, he has just bought a very special bike, a genuine 955SP (hence his forum name), and I think he's trying to put it back to original spec or as close to as he can plus a bit of updating. I'm not sure how much it's been changed from spec, but it sounds like an extensive (and expensive) job.

I don't think he's trying to upgrade himself into being a better rider. Just trying to make the best bike he can whilst retaing some of the original flavour of the machine. He's been bitten good and hard by the Ducati bug, and he's fortunate enough to be able to afford some very nice machinery and be able to bling them to his taste. I'm sure in the fulness of time he'll get around to getting extra training etc.

[nogaromill999]

Its all a matter of budget really. How about these from Wilbers in Germany? Read the German magazine PS and you'll see Wilbers knocking spots off Ohlins and WP products left, right and centre.....here's a pic