998 Bayliss - Engine Repair

[safetyfish]

You were not stating the obvious, it took me a while to figure out why things were not lining up on the vertical cylinder for tdc. Then I kind of reminded myself that it is a four stroke i.e. one cycle involves two revolutions of the crank. I will go stand in the corner now......


Anywhooooo!!

First set of pictures with horisontal cylinder at TDC

Second set of pictures with vertical cylinder at TDC

I sat there and rotated that crank by hand for something like 10 minutes, there is no way that anything is touching. Comments?

[Ghost]

Looks good SF, just check when each cyl is at TDC and the notches are at 3,9 & 12 that you are indeed on the firing stroke, you should be able to spin the opening shims easily, clearance under all rockers.

[safetyfish]

I checked clearance with a feeler gauge on the vertical cylinder on the firing stroke as you mentioned - no problems in my inexperienced opinion. (Chris was not joking when he said those shims went in on the tight side of the specs)

There comes a point sometimes where you just have to say buggerit and just dive straight in and see what happens.....

SF

[CJS ducati]

Thats great you have establised your base setting wich will enable you to start the bike. Just remember with the amount skimmed from the heads the valve timing will now be retarded. To correct it to factory settings you will need to use the factory clamps. The better way is to learn how to degree them this way you can use a tried and tested spec.

Great thread.....

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by CJS ducati

Thats great you have establised your base setting wich will enable you to start the bike. Just remember with the amount skimmed from the heads the valve timing will now be retarded. To correct it to factory settings you will need to use the factory clamps. The better way is to learn how to degree them this way you can use a tried and tested spec.

Great thread.....

Best put another week aside then SF, shut everyone away. But it makes such a difference when you have those two pots running as one engine rather than 2 singles.

[safetyfish]

Been a week of ups and downs, but we are getting there. I explained the whole belt alignment issue and the special tool needed from Ducati to my wife. I explained that I opted instead for the eyeball method, she now insist that I get the tool regardless of how much it cost. She is not willing to offer her house up for three more months again for a bike rebuild. I nearly took her up on that one.......

All the little bits and bobs have to go on,in,onto its own little place now.

Radiator is in with all its piping and wires
Kickstand plus all its wires
Throttle bodies plus all its cables and wires
Earth wire and alternator wiring
Brake calipers and wheels
Sprockets (no chain yet because I don’t have a chain riveting tool)
Air ducts and air box
Belt covers (I would have prefered to leave them off but there are wires running very close that could get damaged so I am not going to chance it)
ECU and battery etc etc etc
Oil went in
Radiator fluid went in, and it was at this point that I discovered that I never three bonded the water pump cover back into position again. Fluid all over the floor and a quick cleanup followed. Thirty minutes later the cover is cleaned up and threebonded into position. No fluids yet, that will have to wait a day.

All I still have to put back is the spark plugs, fuel tank and fairings then she is good to go. It was at this point that I decided to hell with it and I threw the key in the ignition and turned it on. Everything came on as it should......

I took a step back, prayed to all known motorbike gods and threw the kill switch over, one small prayer again and I hit the starter button. I nearly had a heart attack. The coil plug was still in the spark plug hole to prevent dirt or stray objects falling into the combustion chamber, with the engine turning over those two coils blew off with a loud friggin crack - I nearly sh&^%t myself.

IT WORKED!!!!!!!! The engine is turning over!!!! First time.......

Hopefully in the next day or two I would be home early enough to finish the job and get that fuel tank on her and see what happens........ There is light at the end of the tunnel and it is not an oncoming train

SF

[Ghost]

As its all been apart its good practice to wang it over on the starter with the plugs out, until you see the oil light go out, or pressure on the guage.

[safetyfish]

I did the cranking over without sparkplugs thing, thanks for the reminder though. Main reason being that Haynes manual suggest to fill the oil pump with engine oil first before installing it. Only problem is you tip everything out as you turn the pump over to install it. Not a good idea so I left that step out. My reasoning was along the lines of how does the pump prime after a service and the oil has been drained in any case?

I cranked the engine over a couple of times and the light did go out after about the third go. Connected all the final bits and pieces up and sorted out a few routing issues. (Hope no Aussies are reading this right now)

Radiator return hose from the vertical cylinder head to the header tank has to go either over or under the air runner attachment point to the airbox on the left. Of the two hoses, one has to go over and one has to go under. Manual is no good and it is a trial and error till it works issue. Same with the kickstand and alternator wires.

At long last the petrol tank went back on, but still no chain because I dont have a chain tool (yet)

Turned the key, threw the switch and nothing........ Oh yes, side stand is still down (I am getting that bloody thing modded soon)

Bike turned over perfectly. Fuel pump primes, the oil light goes out after a couple of cycles but nothing else. She just turns over but there is something wrong somewhere.

Back to the drawing board and now checking all wires, connections etc.
I have fuel (I can smell it)
I have spark (I can see it)
The fuel pump primes (I can hear it for a second or two then it switches off when it reaches its pressure)
The injector wires are connected to the correct injector (V for vertical and O for horisontal)
Crank sensor is back in again and connected (I never checked the air gap between the sensor and the gear though. My thinking was because it is going back in with its original shims it should not be a problem)


Just to confirm a couple of things if I may -
The 998 has only two earthing points. One is on the ECU and the other is next to the breather valve?
When you are cranking over, are you supposed to feel air move out of the throttle bodies while cranking the engine over? My instinct tells me that there should be no air coming out of the throttle bodies, air only goes in the throttle body and out the exhaust - or am I missing something?

Any thoughts?

SF

[Ghost]

For oil pump rebuild I always pack with Vaseline pure petroleum jelly. It allows the pump to work and lube and prime then dissolves to nothing and does not re-congeal.

SF double check the pics on the valves, with Horz at TDC and firing the centre cutout is at 12 O'clock.

At this same setting the Vert cyl centre cutout should be at 5 O'clock.

Because the vert is on its way down on the induction stroke.

If they are at this position, take your plugs out find a piece of rubber tube that seals in the plug hole tie a rubber glove or balloon on the tube.

Now turn the engine over by hand looking for air coming into the balloon you know that you are coming up on compression.

Remove the tube use a hard plastic biro or similar to feel the piston on the Vert to TDC.

Your centre cutout should be at 12 O'clock.

Hope this helps.

[safetyfish]

Confirmed all that as I installed everything. I used a digital calliper /gauge to measure and check the exact TDC position of the respective cylinders as they went through the cycle.

The t marks on the cams line up as in the picture in the post above i.e.

Horisontal at TDC then Horisontal at 12
Horisontal at TDC the vertical at 5

Vertical in TDC then vertical at 12
Vertical in TDC the Horisontal at 7

At any part of the cycle is it normal for there to be air blowing out the throttle body by the way?


SF

[Ghost]

It is possible as the inlet is not closed until approx 53 crank degrees ABDC so the piston is on its way up to compress whilst the inlet is closing.

[safetyfish]

Gave Chris over at CJS a call this afternoon and explained the problem the way I perceive it. Basically, he reckons these 998 bikes can be a bugger to start after a rebuild and that I am only paranoid. Just get a booster pack on the battery and keep trying without frying the starter motor in the process he reckons. I have to just thank that man for all the help and support over the last three months. A special thanks also to that Grey Haired Old Silly Twit, thank you to the both of you gentleman. I know you two do this for a living and surely must be smiling sagely in your sleeves about this whole saga with a rookie trying to rebuild a motorbike essentially in his livingroom.

Got home, wheeled the bike out and connected a booster pack to the battery. On the fourth crank it started up and 10 seconds later I nearly had another in a series of heart attacks. There suddenly was just this cloud of white smoke coming from the engine. Had a quick look, and it was the polish I used to buff up the exhaust pipes months ago that is now burning off.

She is idling perfectly. Checked fluid levels in the header tank, squeezed hoses to try and get rid of air locks as the bike idled, felt the oil supply line temperatures and eventually I could feel heat in them and heat in the oil cooler itself. No warning lights on the dash. Temperatures on the heads on various spots seemed ok, most of the residue polish has burned off by now and I could start to breath properly again.

No oil leaks anywhere, no fluid leaks either - everything seems OK. I let it idle at 2000rpm using the fast idle lever (hey, even that works) until the temp reaches a 100 deg. The fans kick in and a few minutes later they kick out again as the temp drop.

Switch the bike off and let it stand for a few minutes. Hit the starter again, with no booster pack this time around, and it starts immediately.
Repeat that three more times over the next half an hour. Starts first time, every time.

All I need now is a chain riveting tool.... you have no idea how frustrating it is not being able to jump on that bike and to take it around the block. But in essence, I am quietly optimistic and would almost say out loud that the job is finally done.

I am the drunk guy over in the corner if anybody should ask

SF

[stevel]

YeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrr!
Many congrats on that, and keeping us all update, it's been a great story
Fingers crossed for successful test ride and settling in.....and I hope that valve timing is ok this time!

[Ghost]

Ahhh great to read that SF. I have no problem at all in divulging information to people that can understand and have the ability I like to help.

Its the ones that don't and never will, that want to have a go, thats difficult to accept & can be dangerous.

That chain riveter will be cheaper than the cam set jig tho.

[CJS ducati]

Thats great news fish you should be happy you have achieved way more than the average guy. You will be even more happy when you feel the smoothness of the fine balanced crank ,flywheel and extra poke from the re-worked heads !!!!!!!1