Stock S2R running lean ?

[Black s2r]

I am running a stock S2R - 2007 model with the lambda sensor. Below 5,000 rpm, it seem to run pretty lean - occasional stumbles when accelerating, generally poor throttle response and occasional surges in low gears & low revs - which makes Paris traffic jumping even worse. Also get popping in th exhaust when shutting throttle.

Have seen some traffic on the US Monster board, and one suggestion was to disconnect the lambda sensor, as it controls the mixture setting below 5,000 rpm. The theory is that the closed loop ECU will then default to a standard map, and this should be a little richer than the lambda modified version.

Having run for 100 kms, with the sensor disconnected and running around at mostly below 5,000 rpm, the bike feels better. Have checked the plugs and they look good. I did notice that the tickover is a little higher (near 1500 rpm when warmed up), and the temp gauge staying a little lower (+/- 90 deg C, compared with +/- 100 deg C on a similar run this morning). Also have the warning light on.

Does anyone have any experience of running with the sensor disconnected on a standard set-up? Is there any risk of long term damage to the cat?

Will check consumption on the next tank full.

Thanks.

[half man, half mole]

May I suggest a search on this site - you may find what you're looking for.

UK Monster Owners Club

Oh, and you might want to place this enquiry on the S2R board as well .

I'm sure someone will be along to help you soon.

Mike

[Black s2r]

Mike,
I have looked on various UK and US forums, and apart from going to the DP ECU, which is an open loop and does not use the lambda, there don't seem to be any "low cost" ways to improve the lean mixture at low revs? As far as i can tell, no 3rd party ECU or ECU add-on are available for the 2007 Euro 3 models, yet?

Simon

[half man, half mole]

It could be time to speak to a good dealer then.

I'd recommend a phone call to Ducati Coventry (JHP) and ask to speak to John in the workshops.

Sadly, I am a technical ignoramus but hopefully I've pointed you in the right direction. Good luck.

Mike

[Black s2r]

Mike,
Should have mentioned that i am living in Bruxelles, and currently in South of France with the bike - and it was after the session in Paris on the Boulevard Peripherique (5 lane traffic jam for the cars - and a bike race in between) that really showed up the poor throttle behaviour/response in 1st and 2nd gear. Having it hesitate when you are going for a gap is no fun, and almost burnt the clutch out during the 2nd hour of the Paris lap trying to keep up with the scooters.

Will try my local Belgium dealer when back north.

Simon

[nelly]

Could be due a set up. I'd suggest having the TPS reset and the throttles balanced. That'd get you back to stock settings so you have somewhere to work from.
You could try turning the air bypass screw on the front cylinder out 1/2 turn. This will weaken the cylinder, the lambda will detect this and richen things up. It will do both cylinders though. Only the front is closed loop. The richer rear cylinder may "drag" the motor up to somewhere a bit smoother. This worked on the 1098's before the new maps where loaded.
With the closed loop disconnected, you'll probably "dirty" the lambda and wreck it. I'd reconnect and try the air screw in the short term.

[Black s2r]

Nelly
Thank you for the good advice - will try and adjust the air screw tomorrow and take it for a test ride.
I have just ordered the Technoresearch VDST tool, as this can reset the TPS. They also claim that it can modify the fuel trim, and measure the output of the lambda probe, so this should give me a way of improving the low speed behaviour, i hope.
Simon

[MarkST]

Originally Posted by nelly

I'd suggest having the TPS reset and the throttles balanced.

What sort of cost would that involve on an ST4 nelly, assuming I took the fairing and tank off ?

[nelly]

The VDST will reset the TPS just fine but there is no trim facility on the stock ECU to adjust. Any of the Euro 3 compliant bikes with closed loop lambda are locked out on the stock ECU. I can't adjust with the factory DDS.......
If you're going to tweak the mixture, you need the DP ecu and remove the lambda.

ST4 uses a manual TPS adjustment Mark, not a "reset" as such. Flat rate £45 + VAT to set TPS, balance and adjust mixture etc. Basically a full setup of the FI, since tweaking one part rarely achieves the best results. Can make things worse if it's been tweaked with say the TPS out of sync.
Tank needs to be in place to set the fuelling up. Fairings off wil save a bit

[MarkST]

Originally Posted by nelly

ST4 uses a manual TPS adjustment Mark, not a "reset" as such. Flat rate £45 + VAT to set TPS, balance and adjust mixture etc. Basically a full setup of the FI, since tweaking one part rarely achieves the best results. Can make things worse if it's been tweaked with say the TPS out of sync.
Tank needs to be in place to set the fuelling up. Fairings off wil save a bit

Thanks nelly, I'll start saving then - I need a new rear tyre first though.
Whereabouts in Notts are you btw ?

[half man, half mole]

Nelly:-

Cornerspeed

Obviously too modest to promote himself but I'm happy to do so.

Mike

[springer 1]

As I understand it, the latest bikes run a closed loop injection system with the lamba controlling all fueling below 30% throttle opening.
If you were to disconnect the lamba & fit a power commander with the stock ecu could you then richen the mixture via the power commander at throttle openings of less than 30%?
Ok I know the mil light will light, but I am in a similar position & just wondered if this would work whilst I save up the dosh to pay for a DP ecu at £750!! gulp

[nelly]

The closed loop monitoring is on the front cylinder only, except M696 and the 1098R. As far as i know the new siemens DP ECU, on the M696, controls below 30% throttle, but the weber equipped bikes are full range. Any adjustments made by the closed loop affect both cylinders though.
Other than swapping the exhausts, why would you want to use a power commander? My point is that, while the DP exhaust kits aren't in the "cheap" sector, if you use someone elses cans and then go for a PC the £ difference soon closes up, especially if you throw dyno time in. You also end up looking at the EOBD light. One other point is that you're still running with the stock ignitiopn curve which is biased towards emmissions output also.
The DP ECU allows you to adjust the fuel trim, remove the lambda safely, avoids the EOBD light and tweaks the ignition. If the bikes under warranty there's no problem and you get 2 years on the DP kit to.
If you're trying to sort a running issue with a PC on stock pipes, then i'd suggest you get the bike setup properly first, or at least checked over. Ducati do fuel the bikes very, very, well. It's usually poor set up that lets them down.

[springer 1]

thanks for your input Nelly, much appriciated, perhaps I should fully explain my problem.

I am running a S2R 1000 with a spareshack de-cat pipe (original cat removed) the lamba sensor has been relocated into the de-cat pipe.
I am also running a Remus Revolution titanium oval can with removable baffle.
This is with the stock ecu

The problem I have is the bike is running very lean, it pops & backfires through the exhaust when changing gear & on the over-run, also it has a flat spot at low revs, which is most prominant when say exiting a roundabout in 2nd gear, sometimes I can hear it spit back through the air box.

Because the DP ecu is so expensive (£750) I was looking for a cheaper cure even if it means that the mil light would stay on, I have been told that the DP ecu is not a cure all in all situations & even if I bought one I may still need a power commander to smooth things out?

As things stand it looks as though my only way out is to either refit the original cat or to stump out the dosh for a DP ecu, I just wondered if I disconnected the lamba sensor would the injection system then run in open loop in the lower rpm range & therefore allow me to modify the fueling with a powercommander or a techlusion tfi module?

Regards
Springer 1

[Black s2r]

Springer, i am in the same situatiion with a stock setup. The guys who sold me the VDST setup claim that the fuel trim is adjustable. At $300, its a cheaper route than the DP ECU. Will let you know when i get it.