Benefits of Road and Off-Road Skills?

**moose** · 07 Dec 07, 10:16 AM

Hey Ducatisti!

Just chatting with my girly about weekend activities - (steady....) - she's a biker too (passed her test and went straight on to a CBR 6 RR, couldn't persuade to get a Duc!); anyway the topic of "let's go out on the bikes" is at the front of the options and I'm saying - you should do some off-road stuff - it really gives you a different perspective on how a bike handles on varied terrain and you'll learn a lot more that'll help everyday riding.

So I thought I'd ask you lot what you think.... My view is that I'm more at ease with dodgy road conditions, locking up wheels, having to chuck the bike around situations - my point being that because I'll happily slide, jump, cross water and fall off without panicking on a dirt bike, getting into and out of trouble on the road is less of a suprise and I really benefit from using my off road skills at those moments on the road when strict road riding doesn't help.

Here's an example - last year on my 998, wet summer day, travelling about 40-30 (decellerating) approaching a roundabout - a few cars waiting to enter the r/bout ahead of me - about 100m away with 2 cars in the lanes ready to go with one behind....

The one behind must have selected reverse by mistake and slewed madly blocking the outside lane I was in..... still braking I stood up on the pegs and rode up a beveled curb onto the grass median, fishtailed and bit and rode out onto the r/about that was luckily empty so I didn't have to come to a complete stop.... if I hadn't got my off road experience I would have just breaked even harder with nowhere to go and possibly "kissed" the silly car!!

Don't get me wrong, I was not all calm and collected, still had that ohmigod tightening of the chuff, but I took an off-road route to avoid a potential prang.

Anyone else agree that mixed skills are good to have?

ps - if you want to learn some off-road stuff - go see Ady Smith (Britsh Enduro champ and current 2nd SuperMoto rider - top mate, top rider and got a stable full of KTM beauties)

**diamondbrit73** · 07 Dec 07, 10:55 AM

You will find alot of the top racers all practice/play on off road and supermotard etc..look at all the guys with dirt track experience, sideways racing etc!!!

it gives you confidence on a bike and you can learn alot from it!!

i had my first real off road fun last year on my mates yamaha 250 on his own track in france!!

i was getting on quite well foot out slides and power slides, jumps etc.........that was until i went over a jump a bit too fast!!! i could see the crash coming and landed on my head!!!

it was agood job id had a few beers as i was quite relaxed when i fell! winded and brused i was a buit battered up but the worst was the 300 odd journy home the next day!!!!

I definaty want to get back on one and am considering getting myself and off roader for fun!! a good laugh and good experience!

**David.Hicks** · 07 Dec 07, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moose

Anyone else agree that mixed skills are good to have?

Yep - I get my fix on my TTR250 off-road during the winter and I certainly feel the benefit - it is especially noticeable on my SuperDuke which has a similarly up-right riding position and isn't as fast as the SPS. I'm quite happy to spin the rear going round corners on the SD - confidence I've defo picked-up off-road.

**Greyjohn** · 08 Dec 07, 05:22 PM

Off road experience really helps on the road, especially when the surface gets a little "interesting".

**fastphil** · 08 Dec 07, 08:16 PM

Ride a Gas Gas 250 pro (novice trials only so far) teaches clutch control and balance have also riden CRF450X for enduro/MX purposes but it's a different riding style dont think I'd want to back my 998 into a bend though!

**Couchcommando** · 09 Dec 07, 10:40 AM

I've done a lot of off road riding and in my experience the rear sliding off road and the rear sliding on tarmac are so far removed from each other it's of no use knowing how to slide off road and apply it to tarmac. Off road on an oval i can back the bike in and hold a slide thro the whole corner yet on tarmac I never have a slide as the forces required to break rear traction deliberately are far too high for me, the one or 2 slides I do have are pure luck that they don't turn into a highside. It helps those at the top level as they have the skill to apply the techniques learnt on a loose surface to tarmac but below that level for me it's just another urban myth altho off road may help a little with low speed stuff but in general tarmac riding for me it has no use..oooh apart from the wheelies that is LOL

**NedLudd** · 09 Dec 07, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couchcommando

I've done a lot of off road riding and in my experience the rear sliding off road and the rear sliding on tarmac are so far removed from each other it's of no use knowing how to slide off road and apply it to tarmac. Off road on an oval i can back the bike in and hold a slide thro the whole corner yet on tarmac I never have a slide as the forces required to break rear traction deliberately are far too high for me, the one or 2 slides I do have are pure luck that they don't turn into a highside. It helps those at the top level as they have the skill to apply the techniques learnt on a loose surface to tarmac but below that level for me it's just another urban myth altho off road may help a little with low speed stuff but in general tarmac riding for me it has no use..oooh apart from the wheelies that is LOL

That sounds pretty wise to me. I've always understood the value of off-road skills to a road racer since so much of what they do involves controlling slides and exploring the breaking point of grip etc. But on the road, well, as above. Can't help thinking a better means of improvement would simply be more road riding, or perhaps a track-based instruction day of the sort which Rapid Training do, ie not the usual sort of go-out-and-race track day, but using the track to finesse road skills.

I've spent a little time riding speedway bikes and don't think it informed my road riding in any way.

Not an argument against off-roading of course - fun, fun, fun - I just share Couch's scepticism of its direct utility for the road.

**harriebird** · 09 Dec 07, 03:21 PM

i rode a speedway bike before i rode a road bike and found it really helped me get my head round clutch control. i even had my first ever bike crash on a speedway bike 8)

it was my present to myself after finishing my GCSEs (the rest of my mates went on a drinking and shagging holiday in Newquay

, how sad am I!)
when it came to my CBT, however, i just could not get my head round gears or brakes

i'd love to have another go now but i think it would be too much of a head **** now i'm used to road riding

i would like to have a go at some off roading but i would be a bit embarrassed about asking an 8 year old motocross wizard if i could have a go on their bike please... and i'm **** scared of falling off!

**NedLudd** · 09 Dec 07, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harriebird

i'd love to have another go now but i think it would be too much of a head **** now i'm used to road riding

Yup, it's pretty counter-intuitive in parts. The lack of any brakes being one...

On the second of the two days I spent doing it (at King's Lynn) I was slower than on the first, because that morning one of our number started to drifted wide on one of the corners, did what all newbies do, ie shut off the gas rather than accelerating harder under opposite lock to regain grip, hit the fence, and went flying over the handlebars and bouncing down the home straight, breaking his leg in several places. I was pretty feeble after that.

I was with this outfit: The Olle Nygren Sliding Weekends

**harriebird** · 09 Dec 07, 03:36 PM

i went there too, but this was nearly 13 years ago now! it was a good course, i got what i wanted out of it, didnt really start sliding but it was still fun!

and i had some fabulous bruising all over my stomach as a result of my little trip off line...

Olle was a big hero of my dad's and i'm not sure who enjoyed it the most, me or my dad haha

he was mad as a box of frogs and i can still hear him shouting "Trottle on, trottle on" at me!

**Couchcommando** · 09 Dec 07, 04:30 PM

Fancy doing the flat track school that ccm run as it looks like a lot of fun. I stil lstand by what I think tho regarding sliding, if you can ride quick enough to initiate a slide at will on tarmac then it is of use but most of us don't and only have slides when it goes wrong and that's luck whether it comes back or not LOL

**NedLudd** · 09 Dec 07, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harriebird

i went there too, but this was nearly 13 years ago now! it was a good course, i got what i wanted out of it, didnt really start sliding but it was still fun!

and i had some fabulous bruising all over my stomach as a result of my little trip off line...

Olle was a big hero of my dad's and i'm not sure who enjoyed it the most, me or my dad haha

he was mad as a box of frogs and i can still hear him shouting "Trottle on, trottle on" at me!

Indeed, a great character. I've got a video of a couple of laps I did, produced by him, which makes terrible viewing: the huge powerslide I had visualized, with a great rooster of shale behind me, turns out to be the rear stepping out by about 2 inches; and there's his audible commentary "come on come on come on... oh dear, he was really good yesterday..."

**moose** · 12 Dec 07, 09:09 PM

yep - agree with your comments re: trying to apply off road skills to road riding - it ain't going to work in most cases, that's why the bikes are so different... but...

how many people have you noticed roaring around the roads like track gods then morphing to legs dangling out like stabilisers when then get to park up on loose ground or grass?

that's my main point - confidence of handling your road bike on stuff that isn't hard tarmac in those infrequent occasions you have to; I definitely don't fancy backing my 1098 into the sweeps on the A272 thanks very much - I make a good enough job of looking daft as it is!

**harriebird** · 12 Dec 07, 09:18 PM

hehe those of us that dont have the luxury of being able to dangle our legs like stabilisers have no other choice but to ride under full control with both feet on the pegs!

i occasionally have a sneaky chuckle when i get stuck behind someone who is filtering with both their feet 3 inches from the floor

i hate gravel though

a guy i used to go out with told me i should go and try some motocross to "get over my fear of loose surfaces" i just told him that he should start riding in january and february to "get over his fear of the cold"

never hurts to try something different though does it. i never would have gone racing had i not bitten the bullet and done a trackday. for me, trying something different just gave me a different experience and built up my confidence on the bike because id seen it could easily handle anything i asked of it, and more!

**moose** · 12 Dec 07, 09:26 PM

i fancy some supermotard - Ady Smith is a top chap on those rides - when I can afford to pay him for binning his bike 11teen times before I get the hang of it I'll ask for go