Trail Brakeing - A Question for the Racers!

**auburn** · 28 Dec 07, 04:06 PM

Hi Guys can anyone tell me exactly what is ment by trailbrakeing ?
my understanding is that you brake lightly on entering a corner front brake trailing "bike trying to sit up"
let go of brake at given point bike falls into corner and round you GO.
If its not the case can some one enlighten me please ??

**Gilps** · 28 Dec 07, 05:02 PM

The way I interpret trailing the brake is simply braking into a corner and lightly continuing to brake into the corner, usually no later than the apex as you should be on the gas by then. The California Superbike School teach that you should not trail the brake as your braking should be complete by the time your hit your turn point and commence the turn. However, you will see the top riders trailing the brake right into the corner. I tried the CSS method but ended up going back to trailing. Basically it means that you continue braking with the bike in the early part of the corner whilst leant over.

**zimbo** · 28 Dec 07, 08:07 PM

I hit the brakes, hard, and often keep them on as I tip into a corner, releasing them gradually as I approach the apex and then accelerating out. This is usually on tighter corners with a fast approach - Mallory hairpin for example, or Druids at Brands.

**robduc996** · 28 Dec 07, 10:33 PM

You've got the definition right. Trail braking means to hold on to the brakes into a corner. The reason for doing this is that when you brake hard on anything remotely sporty the rear end will lift and sharpen the geometry at the front. This will enable a much faster turn in rate. But, the front tyre will only provide so much grip. It can deal with hard braking or knee down cornering, but not both at the same time. So once you begin turning, ease off the brakes allowing a gradual transition from braking to cornering.

Please bear in mind this is not something to try and learn on anything other than on warm tyres on the track. Even then build up gradually.

**Nigel101** · 28 Dec 07, 11:25 PM

i've always done it and still do,it feels very natural to me,you can brake harder than you think,i don't/wont advocate it to others though,a word of warning tho' should you do trail brake or just brake to the apex,beware of letting the brakes off too quickly as this WILL unload the front tyre and you are likely to fall off!!!!!!!! oh and keep a bit of throttle on always

**billywiztheelder** · 01 Jan 08, 01:35 AM

I have always understood the term "trail braking" (as in trail - behind) to refer to use of the back brake on approach to, and entering a corner. The purpose being to get the back wheel to provide some stability by "anchoring" the rear of the machine. Thus giving some retardation without the tendency to "sit up" in the corner.

Barry

**zimbo** · 01 Jan 08, 09:48 AM

Personally I never ever use the back brake on track makes the rear slide about too much as there's not a lot of weight on the rear any time you're on the brakes.

**Grib_** · 03 Jan 08, 04:45 PM

My understanding has always been that it's braking deep into a corner. I've only sussed it out properly this year, managing to brake up to an apex, knee down then feed in the power. I'm a really slow learner though, so I'd guess most people can do that fairly easily

So long as you do everything gently, it will be fine, just no jumping on and off the brakes or throttle...that hurts eventually.

**NedLudd** · 03 Jan 08, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grib_

My understanding has always been that it's braking deep into a corner. I've only sussed it out properly this year, managing to brake up to an apex, knee down then feed in the power. I'm a really slow learner though, so I'd guess most people can do that fairly easily

Not me. I'm afraid of touching the brakes much off the vertical - more than is good for me. I think I'd profit from being shown how far into a bend one can really brake.

**Couchcommando** · 03 Jan 08, 04:51 PM

It is braking to the apex of a corner, a delicate balance and guessing game tho LOL

I do it on track but not so much on road, here's a pic of me on my old race bike and you can see I am still braking tipping into this corner

**Grib_** · 03 Jan 08, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NedLudd

Not me. I'm afraid of touching the brakes much off the vertical - more than is good for me. I think I'd profit from being shown how far into a bend one can really brake.

I don't think it's something that's really suitable for road riding, as it's a bit risky with unknown grip levels and potential death by car if it goes wrong! But learning it on the track teaches you a bit of feel for how hard you can brake mid-corner, should the need arise. I reckon it's quite hard before it does go wrong, so long as you don't just jam it on.

**auburn** · 05 Jan 08, 04:43 PM

Hi guys thanks for the replys.
I do it only on track days and have done for a while, NOT on the road!!
I find i do all the breaking before the corner, lightly ONE finger on the front break just enugh to make the bike want to sit up slightly, then relese at the apex bike drops into corner sharply you are round and get back on the gas. its only good for me at tight corners like the new chicane at cadwell, mallory, Etc
It works for me just wondered if i was doing it right ??

**JerryXt** · 05 Jan 08, 08:34 PM

This is interesting - I was just talking to Rob at ProTwins today about track cornering on Ducatis. His view is that Ducatis are meant to be braked hard into corners to compress the front end and quicken the steering, helping it to turn in.

As you release the brake, the forks decompress, increasing the steering angle and the wheelbase. Opening the throttle at this point increases the effect in a controlled fashion.

Clearly if significant rear braking is applied at the same time as front braking, the rear suspension will compress, reducing the compression at the front and affecting the rake and the ability to turn in.

This is all unknown for me cos I'm not that good on the track.

On the road, I use a very small amount of back brake to keep the rear under control in bad weather or when the road surface is unsettling the rear of the bike. It smooths it out nicely. I also find it useful when I've gone into a bend slightly too hot and need to scrub off a bit of speed without making the bike stand up.

**NedLudd** · 05 Jan 08, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryXt

On the road, I use a very small amount of back brake to keep the rear under control in bad weather or when the road surface is unsettling the rear of the bike. It smooths it out nicely. I also find it useful when I've gone into a bend slightly too hot and need to scrub off a bit of speed without making the bike stand up.

Exactly the circumstances in which I use the rear [on the road], plus for making adjustments in heavy traffic / filtering.

**Gilps** · 06 Jan 08, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryXt

Clearly if significant rear braking is applied at the same time as front braking, the rear suspension will compress, reducing the compression at the front and affecting the rake and the ability to turn in.

Quite the opposite will actually happen. If you load the front under heavy braking then there will be less weight on the rear. The rear shock will actually lengthen. You will also probably lock the rear, believe me I've done it

. I damn near crapped myself the first time I did it. I never ever use the rear brake on track, it's just too unpredictable. The only use for the rear brake on track is when you get into the kitty litter or on the grass.
I rarely use the rear brake on the road too, only in really crappy conditions, or on garage forecourts where there's usually fuel spilt.