Going Round the Bend (A Lesson Learned in Counter-Steering)

[Kenoir]

Originally Posted by oh_seven

It is possibly better to forget thinking about how to counter steer and use your body positioning to get the bike to tighten up. By shifting your head / leg / backside you'll find countersteering becomes part of the whole process automatically.

Simply pushing your head and shoulder deeper into the corner moves the centre of weight and ensures that a little more / less 'force' is applied to the bars in the appropriate way.

Countersteering is fact. Thinking about it can be counter productive.

I couldn't agree more. You have to counter steer to go around a corner. The bike would high side you off if you didn't. So you're much better thinking about your position on the bike and the bike's position on the road and let your automatic system take over the steering.

The fact is, if you're leaning in a corner and you turn the bars into the corner, the front wheel is going to want to sit up. If you turn away from the corner, the front wheel will lie down even more thus making the bike turn even more sharply. But we all do this without thinking, like walking.

I guess what you were saying Steve GD is when you are going slowly, you have to turn in to the corner (because the lack of gyroscopic affect) and once you pass a threshold (different for all bikes) you counter steer automatically. However, there must be a point where you're in between both laws of physics which may account for your strange sensation.

[zimbo]

My old Dad has been riding a bike since 1955.
On a recent visit he came along to a trackday with me, and sat in on the Novice briefing to see if he could learn something. The theory of countersteering was explained and he came out a bit confused, I assured him it worked and he didn't believe me. I encouraged him to try it next time he was on his bike.
He came back totally astonished - he'd never encountered "concious" countersteering in over half a century of riding. He now does it all the time!

[Steve GD]

Originally Posted by oh_seven

It is possibly better to forget thinking about how to counter steer and use your body positioning to get the bike to tighten up. By shifting your head / leg / backside you'll find countersteering becomes part of the whole process automatically.

Simply pushing your head and shoulder deeper into the corner moves the centre of weight and ensures that a little more / less 'force' is applied to the bars in the appropriate way.

Countersteering is fact. Thinking about it can be counter productive.

This may be true for you, Oh_seven, but as I tried to explain, it was completely the opposite for me. Until I knew which bar to push or pull to achieve the desired effect, I was banjaxed each time I encountered a decreasing radius corner: which carried over into a lack of confidence for other corners too. In posting this thread, I just wanted to make this information available for those as confused and underconfident as I was.

[ducbird]

Originally Posted by zimbo

My old Dad has been riding a bike since 1955.
On a recent visit he came along to a trackday with me, and sat in on the Novice briefing to see if he could learn something. The theory of countersteering was explained and he came out a bit confused, I assured him it worked and he didn't believe me. I encouraged him to try it next time he was on his bike.
He came back totally astonished - he'd never encountered "concious" countersteering in over half a century of riding. He now does it all the time!

Now funny we were talking bout this at the meet the other day
im sort of confused but been sat here working it out i think

[MarkST]

Originally Posted by ducbird

Now funny we were talking bout this at the meet the other day
im sort of confused but been sat here working it out i think

You can try it out on a pushbike.

[Jolley]

I practiced on a scooter!

[Steve GD]

Originally Posted by ducbird

Now funny we were talking bout this at the meet the other day
im sort of confused but been sat here working it out i think

You are right to be confused, Viv...it goes completely against what you'd expect.

[MarkST]

Originally Posted by Steve GD

You are right to be confused, Viv...it goes completely against what you'd expect.

It does'nt go completely against what I expect Steve.

[Steve GD]

Originally Posted by MarkST

It does'nt go completely against what I expect Steve.

True, very true.

[zimbo]

I sat down on one of those bike racing arcade games the other day - the ones you sit on a plastic bike and control the steering and throttle / brake with the handlebars whilst watching the big screen in front of you.
I found it impossible to ride it - it expected you to turn the bars in the direction you want to turn, and my brain wouldn't accept it, I kept pushing on the inside bar and turning the wrong way!!!

[ducbird]

Originally Posted by zimbo

I sat down on one of those bike racing arcade games the other day - the ones you sit on a plastic bike and control the steering and throttle / brake with the handlebars whilst watching the big screen in front of you.
I found it impossible to ride it - it expected you to turn the bars in the direction you want to turn, and my brain wouldn't accept it, I kept pushing on the inside bar and turning the wrong way!!!

oh now theres an idea

[ducbird]

is this affected if you carry a pillion

[ducbird]

now i just been practising on my fit ball and it does make a
difference even on there... pulling and pushing has different
effects on the way ur bum moves hence pulling kept me still
on the ball and pulling moved me on the ball.....
now i hope i dont sound silly....

[David.Hicks]

No you don't sound silly at all ...

... now can you please post a video?

[ducbird]

Originally Posted by David.Hicks

No you don't sound silly at all ...

... now can you please post a video?

gonna try see what i can do with my webcam
bit technical for me staying on my fitball while
videoing any takers