Low speed steering & turning

**funkyrimpler** · 24 Apr 08, 03:47 PM

Now im not a police trained rider or a bike instructor etc but ive read lots of posts on this subject and would like to offer my two penneth for what its worth, as ive found a technique that works well for me, and has saved me much aggro and public humiliation..
The first thing is to relax your grip on the bars and relax your shoulders. Its amazing how much tension most of us carry in the shoulders when riding, they get sort of 'hunched'. This means removing almost all of your weight from the wrists and supporting your torso with your abs and knees. If youre unfit this is tiring at first but you'll soon get used to it and its a reward in itself. To practise, sit on a chair or stool and lean forward onto a lower object (coffee table, footstool) which is approximately level with your bars. You'll be resting all of your weight on the wrists-this means fatigue and a lack of control on the bike (particulary on 916s etc). Now lift your hands just off the table but hold your midriff steady-instantly you'll feel your stomach support you, the arms are totally free as are the shoulders. This is easier on the bike as your knees and the air pressure will assist you.
Now on the road. At low speed (sub 30mph) adopt this position. Swivel your hips to the left, counter steer to the right and think 'loosey goosey!!', the bike will roll to the left..go with it..it feels nice... Then swivel your hips to the right and counter steer left. You will be weaving to and fro almost effortlessly-the bike will feel like a 125. You will also feel your abs twisting slightly and the weight transfer through the pegs. This technique is excellent for filtering, low speed right turns and U-turns. Its harder at higher speeds obviously, but i still use this basic technique for faster corners-in fact if ive gone in too fast (for me, not the bike!), i mentally 'let go', and relax the grip on the bars by supporting my body with my stomach. INSTANTLY the bike drops and goes round on rails..just use a little maintenance throttle..each time i do this it improves my confidence. In fact once in a turn almost no bar input is required whatsoever as the physical forces of gravity ,velocity and weight distribution means the bikes' on auto-pilot and the rider will just bugger things up. Irrespective of speed..ALWAYS look where you want the bike to go..even if you think youre gonna bin it..a tiny grip on teh bars, relaxed shoulders and arms (due to the supported torso) and she WILL go round because YOURE not preventing it!!..unless of course Mr. Magoo pushes you off the road...Hope this helps!

**mrs 848** · 24 Apr 08, 09:28 PM

ta muchly i love any help /advise on this sorta stuff. i feel you cant really know enough. only having riding for 2 years and not being able to drive a car i find judging cornering speed abit hard. so i always seem to take em too slow. i learnt my lesson with the look where your going thing when i paniced and looked at a bush on a corner on my 125. when out on my own i tend to practice on roads i know then when i know the type of corner coming up i can concentrate more on my posistion on the road and how i'm sitting on my bike. i cant ride as fast as all my mates but luckly they do wait for me and i dont care aslong as i'm having fun. got a day off tomorrow so hopefully weather will be nice.

**funkyrimpler** · 26 Apr 08, 10:19 AM

Fair play to you..There is always someone whos faster in a group, but ive been there (and no doubt will be again), when youre pushing it too much and the ride become scary not fun...if i find myself with a rider who takes silly chances or i just get a bad gut feeling i wont ride out with them again..Ive had a couple of offs and they're not fun-although they do make for interesting threads

. Learn at your own pace but push yourself gradually..the real skills on the road imvho are observation, positioning and self-discipline..get that right and then you can have fun with all the cool stuff that can kill you

..

**funkyrimpler** · 28 Apr 08, 04:52 PM

and now for the pros...
YouTube - Christian Pfeiffer at Goodwood 2007 festival of speed.

**Baelstian** · 07 May 08, 02:32 AM

Awesome stunts. Check what I got for you guys.

YouTube - Brand new Gixxer crashed
I really hope this is not going to happen with me when I collect my Duc one day.

**Mrs H** · 07 May 08, 11:00 AM

Well - that would have been pretty embarrassing - especially with his mate Youtubing it...

Funkyrimpler - cheers too for the advice below.
I must seriously be getting my low speed turning and steering wrong because my shoulders today are up by my ears (an interesting look) with tension after Monday's ride out. Additionally my right forearm aches from holding onto the throttle (and/or front brake) just a teensy weensy bit too tightly...

So - next time I'm out I will practise what you suggest - and then maybe those windy Dartmoor roads will be a bit easier next time.

I'm also with Mrs 848 on practising on known roads in order to be able to anticipate bends and practise getting better at going round them. Funnily enough, outside on my (push) bike this morning, I found myself (after reading about it on some website I found) looking for the vanishing point too. Oh, and wondering whether I could practise counter-steering on a pushbike! It was a bugger not having rear mirrors though - kept looking for them - but they weren't there!

I'd signing up for the Avon and Somerset 1 or 2 day Ride to Arrive event in September in order to make myself safer...

Cheers. Donna

**NedLudd** · 07 May 08, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs H

Oh, and wondering whether I could practise counter-steering on a pushbike!

You certainly can. I think it's a very effective way of intro/ing people to the physics of it all, and at a pace which doesn't scare.

**funkyrimpler** · 07 May 08, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs H

Well - that would have been pretty embarrassing - especially with his mate Youtubing it...

Funkyrimpler - cheers too for the advice below.
I must seriously be getting my low speed turning and steering wrong because my shoulders today are up by my ears (an interesting look) with tension after Monday's ride out. Additionally my right forearm aches from holding onto the throttle (and/or front brake) just a teensy weensy bit too tightly...

So - next time I'm out I will practise what you suggest - and then maybe those windy Dartmoor roads will be a bit easier next time.

I'm also with Mrs 848 on practising on known roads in order to be able to anticipate bends and practise getting better at going round them. Funnily enough, outside on my (push) bike this morning, I found myself (after reading about it on some website I found) looking for the vanishing point too. Oh, and wondering whether I could practise counter-steering on a pushbike! It was a bugger not having rear mirrors though - kept looking for them - but they weren't there!

I'd signing up for the Avon and Somerset 1 or 2 day Ride to Arrive event in September in order to make myself safer...

Cheers. Donna

Hi Donna,
nice one..at least youre honest with yourself-thats the first step. I barely touch the grips as a rule and have an inbuilt 'tensionomitor'...i also look right up to the horizon, even way across a field to see where the road ends up or who/what is lurking ahead-raising the horizon also has the effect of slowing everything down giving to time to plan..This reduces tension..One other tip, always cover the brake with two fingers-this helps reduce the grip on the throttle, helps when bilippinh for downshifts and reduces emergency braking time. Also, maintain two fingers on the-ive found that this smooths out gear changes and makes finessing the clutch much easier

**Mrs H** · 10 May 08, 08:33 PM

Thanks Funky.

Now need to go and find the thread about "bilippinh for downshifts" - because I close the throttle when down (and up) shifting.

So much to learn....

**ducbird** · 10 May 08, 08:46 PM

Funkyrimpler - cheers too for the advice below.
I must seriously be getting my low speed turning and steering wrong because my shoulders today are up by my ears (an interesting look) with tension after Monday's ride out. Additionally my right forearm aches from holding onto the throttle (and/or front brake) just a teensy weensy bit too tightly.

Use those thighs good work out for them....
after leaning on my hands and having aching
wrists and numb fingers.. i have been using my
thighs to keep myself on the bike and now have
no aches in my shoulder blades and hands that
i can feel... now all i gotta do is practice counter
steering

**Mrs H** · 10 May 08, 09:03 PM

Counter steering's not hard Ducbird. Luckily my instructor introduced it really early on - so was no surprise to me. I remember him telling me (without why) to push on one side of the bike as I rode through the cattle market (off road riding practise area) - I was very surprised when I went in the same direction as my pushing hand. Reckon I was lucky to be introduced to counter-steering as early as I was. He was (is) a pretty unique instructor though. I don't quite have the nerve to go back to him to get some more advanced lessons now I've got my bike (he didn't want me to get a Ducati for starters!) - he's shout at me for all the bad habits I've already got into! And if he asked me to do a turn in the road...... I'd get off and push my bike round I reckon.

Hope you're having a good evening.

**ducbird** · 10 May 08, 09:09 PM

well i would go back to him to show off my nice Ducati...

My instructor hasnt even touched on the subject of
counter steering im gonna ask him on monday and see
what he says...

Ducatis huh no turning circle

didnt realise how poor
till i tried Dizzy..and had to scoot her back and forth
90 times just to turn around in a junction at my mums.
Gonna get off and walk her next time..

reckon that
would work at roundabouts

My evening is just fine kids in bed and here on my fit ball
addicted to Ducatisti.
Hows your evening going

**funkyrimpler** · 11 May 08, 11:55 PM

Counter steering is surely the most basic of steering techniques for the bike..? Does anyone know why this isnt this standard procedure on lessons..?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs H

Thanks Funky.

Now need to go and find the thread about "bilippinh for downshifts" - because I close the throttle when down (and up) shifting.

So much to learn....

In the real world-cover two fingers over the brake at all times..this also makes blipping easier..When downshifting give a short 'blip' on the throttle to increase the revs (engine speed) to the road speed (the number of revs that the engine would be turning for that speed in the lower gear)..As you blip the throttle, stroke the clutch lever in (it doesnt have to go all the way back-i use two fingers-but only in the real (naughty on test)..release the lever as the rev needle descends..With practice, this is one seamless movement and sounds far more complicated than it really is..

Hope i dont sound like some self appointed riding guru..i aint.

**NedLudd** · 12 May 08, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkyrimpler

As you blip the throttle, stroke the clutch lever in (it doesnt have to go all the way back-i use two fingers-but only in the real (naughty on test)

Very good point: ie some routinely pull the clutch lever all the way back to the bars when in reality the biting point might mean that it only needs to come back say 25% of the way - and knowing that can make things much smoother.