Training and Skills?

[Dave101]

possibly posted in the wrong section, but never mind!

i am quite a new rider, once i passed DAS, i got my 750SS and rode it for 6 months until dec 2006 when i left the uk. i am returning in a few weeks and id thought id share some of my fears with you, seeing as i have read too many crash threads recently.

I cant go fast round corners, i dont lean right down, its not that i cant, but im still at that point where id rather go slower and more upright than go fast, lean down, and trust the bike. i know i should trust it!

that said, i have tried a number of times to go faster, and on familiar roads i can do this, but then when i get a little over confident, and i come across a real sharp corner that is not opening up, i panic and grab the brakes. usually i slow up before the bike loses its line, but once i did drift right over on a desrted road, thanks to using my front brake.

other times, i tend to brake harder with the back brake, and so the back wheel kind of slides round, but means the bike is actually following the contour of the road and then it sticks down and im away.

both of these happend only once or twice, but because of them, i tend to slow right down and take a sharpish country lane corner at 20mph, or a country lane bend at 45-55mph.

im talking about tiny country lanes, nice open a roads i am ferfectly happy on, its just those ones with either no lane markings, or high farmers field hedges and corners that seem to double back on you!

i am always making reasonable progresss, but for my own skill improvement, i should really be looking to avoid the brakes, keep revs on, lean in, and look past the bend? (saying it is easier than doing it)

now winter is here tho, i know we all need to slow down anyway, so i dont need to worry about it really.
alot of this stems from more experienced riders egging me on to go faster, so id like your thoughts.

im hoping you all say 'david, safety first, sod them until you feel comfortable, then, and only then let rip!'

[jezjay]

practice makes perfect.although riding is also constant learning//

Superbike School :: Discover the art of cornering


this is extremely helpful and not just aimed at R1 Fireblades etc

worth the money i think...

[andyb]

I think you need to learn to ride on the road, and not superbike school.

[jezjay]

you use the skills on the road , they teach ROAD riders as well and are very patient, its not just about track, they will give you confidence in cornering etc... just read the website FULLY and you`ll understand, I know 2 people who have been and say it was the best step they ever took... ( and no they never ride on a track )

[bremalynchance]

Before you consider trying to go around the bends faster, you really need to learn the art of braking and getting your speed right before entering the bend and too much rear brake is a definate no no

Unless you are an extremely good rider, you should not be touching the brakes mid corner

Secondly there is no rush for you to go quick and every day out should be treated with safety in mind. Not forgetting that quiet country lanes and hedge rows pose a number of issues.

Tractors

Mud

Obscure views

And idiot car drivers who don't think about bikes

My advice is take your time, you will learn every time you go out without even noticing. You would probably surprise yourself on a rideout, just how quick you are without even trying

[97Bip]

Originally Posted by bremalynchance

Not forgetting that quiet country lanes and hedge rows pose a number of issues.

Tractors

Mud

Obscure views

And idiot car drivers who don't think about bikes

Sound advice - and please don't flame me for this.... but can I also add horses and riders to the list, especially in rural areas? Not just for the horse and riders sake - hitting 600Kg of bone and muscle will do a lot of damage to a car, let alone a bike.

Steps off soapbox....

Cheers, 97.

[andyb]

So its about hazard perception.......

[Pax]

As you have said you must first have complete confidence in your bike, if its well set up for you and serviced. Then it will out perform you, therefore you can trust it. Now all you need is confidence in yourself, you got the first bit right by not being overconfident and stepping outside the boundries of your talent.
All you need is experience, ride a road you know regularly, be smooth with your riding this will make you faster. At the end of the day, speed/fun is relative to the rider. I am not a particularly fast rider, but I like to get a move on within my own limits ( and those of the road ), some guys like to do a 120mph everywhere, fine for them. If you don't that does not make you inferior.
If there is someone you ride with that you trust, follow their lines through corners, they can moderate their speed to suit you and gradually increase over time. Try a bike safe course or similar. Plenty of training schools offer extra tuition.
Riding a bike fast is a thrill, in the right place and right time. The 750ss is a fine bike with good power and forgiving handling. Try and get along to a ride out with some of the guys on here, nothing like being surrounded by a dozen roaring Dukes.

Good luck

[Johnny]

Dave,

An interesting post and a bit of a bugbear with me, with some overtones of my own evolution as a rider. You are on a Ducati so you feel you should be setting fire to the road you’re a careful rider, going well within your limit and you feel you should be doing more. Meanwhile the Bike mags and your mates are telling you “you can over come your fear” Well you know what your fear is there for a bloody good reason and in 90% of cases serves you well. If I may I pick up some of your quotes

“I cant go fast round corners, I dont lean right down, its not that I cant, but im still at that point where id rather go slower and more upright than go fast, lean down, and trust the bike. I know I should trust it!”

Good for you take it slow, speed if you want it will comes slowly but safely


”that said, I have tried a number of times to go faster, and on familiar roads I can do this “

Yes, great that’s were you should be going faster and pushing it a little, remember the Rossi’s of this world know the corner have ridden it a hundred time and know there is no horse sh** on the road and nothing is coming the other way

“but then when I get a little over confident, and I come across a real sharp corner that is not opening up, I panic and grab the brakes. usually I slow up before the bike loses its line, but once I did drift right over on a deserted road, thanks to using my front brake”

Yep we have all done that and will do it again. Practice corrections on known roads when you pretend the corner is sharper than it is. That is.. go at a sensible speed with nothing coming the other way round a sweeping corner around the outside of the curve, then pretend it is sharper than it is and tighten it up to the inside. Counter steering helps here (read up)

“alot of this stems from more experienced riders egging me on to go faster, so id like your thoughts.”

Screw them, go out with a more sensible guy and follow his lines but nice and easy

!im hoping you all say 'david, safety first, sod them until you feel comfortable, then, and only then let rip!!

David , safety first, sod them until you feel comfortable, then, and only then let rip! …in slow steady increments on roads you know. Some training may help - more road craft than track day training though. Some police forces do good ones. Remember the first three rules of riding

Be safe
Be safe
Be safe

[Dave101]

thanks for all these good bits of advise, im gearing up to riding my bike again after nearly 11 months of almost no riding, so i think i am in the right mindset!

and yes, i will be attending any meets i can, shame the recent ones are waaay too far south!

the bike is (i say it myself) perfectly maintained so i dont have to worry about that..(touch wood).

[Dave748]

Agreeing with what has already been said above.... there is a lot of male hormones in motorcycling. Go at the speed you're happy with with and aim to ride more and more smoothly, you'll find your speed will naturally increase the smoother you get.

The main thing is to enjoy your riding and get home with a smile on your face, not heart palpitations!!

[Steve GD]

Originally Posted by Dave101

thanks for all these good bits of advise, im gearing up to riding my bike again after nearly 11 months of almost no riding, so i think i am in the right mindset!

and yes, i will be attending any meets i can, shame the recent ones are waaay too far south!

the bike is (i say it myself) perfectly maintained so i dont have to worry about that..(touch wood).

Dave, it sounds to me as if you have absolutely the right mindset, but that of some of your mates is a little out of step with your assessment of your abilities. Go (and learn) at your own pace. Perhaps a different group of biking buddies might help until you are more confident?

Three specific points....two about bike control, one about road riding.

First, it is unnatural to lean a bike (according to the standard issue Mk1 Human Brain) and the only way you can convince it otherwise is by practise. So you are not alone...every rider goes through precisely what you described.

Second, it sounds like you have encountered a decreasing radius turn, and your body did not know how to get you round it. Training would help and here as Johnny already said, learning about counter-steering would be a great advantage. The California Superbike school was started by a guy called Keith Code, and his book "A Twist of the Wrist" is a great way to start learning. He invented the term "counter-steering" and if the explanation of it there does not make you go "Aha", I'll be surprised.


Third, road riding. "Roadcraft" from HMSO is about the best book on the subject , but one-to one training is a great way to learn. The training school instructors s are often ex-police, but they will have you reading so much more from the road that your confidence in your ability to spot a hazard will go up immensely.

[998gsb]

Seems to me you have a wise head on your shoulders......you know and accept your limitations and ride within them....ok you may not be the fastest road rider on the planet - but so what ? You are having fun, and thats what its all about....

Only advice I can give you is ride safely and within your limits, and you will become more proficient with practice and experience and with that you will find that your pace will gradually increase with confidence.

Plan for what you can see, and what you could reasonably expect to see - for example, is there a cow in the middle of the road around the next blind bend on a country road.....is there is tractor pulling out of a gateway, or mud all over the road......and make sure if you encounter these hazards that you are able to stop in time.....discretion is the better part of valour and all that...look ahead and read the road - dont fixate on a patch of tarmac 20 yards in front of you. Good road riders tend to have very good hazard awareness and perception. You need to be constantly updating your mental riding plan, based upon information you take in from the road, other road users and consideration of actual and potential hazards. Road positioning will assist you with this, as by putting the bike in the correct place on the road you can increase your field of view giving you potentially earlier warning of a hazard, however remember to ALWAYS sacrifice position for safety. You dont want to be on the crown of the road, going in to a left-hand bend, with an HGV coming the other way......for obvious reasons.

Accidents can happen to any of us - and sadly rather too many of us seem to have experienced that recently......

The fact remains though that if you ride like valentino on a public road - you are going to come unstuck eventually.....its not a matter of if, its when...........

A lot of accidents occur on roads that we know - and this applies to car drivers as well as bikers - this is because we are familiar with the road, and can "switch off in to auto pilot mode" where our hazard perception skills take a momentary back seat. Familiarity breeds contempt and all that....

If i were you, I'd look at going on a bike safe course, or perhaps doing further training through a school or perhaps doing an advanced riding course like IAM or RoSPA....

just my thoughts!

[Dave101]

well i think when i get home i will do a few hours with the local training school, to emphasise cornering and speed.

then i will see about the bikesafe in durham,

thanks for your help comrades!

[Steve GD]

Thanks for the thread, Dave...interesting seeing all the points of view ....where there were differences and where threre was agreement.