Termis - Chip or PC?

[Boogle748]

Hi guys,

I'm guessing this has probably been discussed before BUT I need to know before parting with £350!!!

I got my 748 with termis already on and a chip that came with the termis installed. Now the bike runs fine from what I can tell, starts fine, and when hot idles at about 1000rpm, power feels good an mpg is good (bout 150 mile before reserver light comes on). But everyone who follows says they can smell rich fuel. Now I went to a guy at Zorstec and he says, invariably (which i guess means ALL THE TIME) when they've had termis put on they require a Power Commander and a proper dyno set up but this costs £350.

Is this normal? I don't want the bike running off and then having loads of problems later on, so if it is correc then £350 it is...oh and by the way is this a good price, for the full fitting/setting up and purchasing of a PC?

Cheers
Boog's

[cmoss]

I went the power commander way on my 996. It will give you the options to adjust the fueling to a better degree for now and future alterations.
Most places charge £150 just to do a re-map on the Dyno so I think its a good deal if they are supplying/fitting and a fuel set-up.
Chris.

[ApocalypsE]

That seems quite cheap, a PC111 costs around £270 and a full Dyno set up is £150. before parting with your dosh, have a dyno run first (£30) to see if it is running rich and what the dyno guys advise.

[Michael D]

Id go with a Ultimap chip,good out of the box...superb mapped on a dyno.

[Vinnychoff]

Boogs
what have you gone for?

[Boogle748]

Hey,

I haven't gone for nothing yet, I'm still really undecided- I don't want some guy taking advantage of my lack of knowledge! Basically I want to go do the dyno run and see the results for myself. Then I will decide if it really needs £350 on a chip or not... it is coming to winter and i'm definitly a fairweather rider only (only been passed since 15/08/08!!) so riding on damp/greasy days isn't for me- I love my bike too much to be binning it!

I was hoping there would be someone on here who had what i had, which is a set of termis with the chip that comes with them in and then had gone on to install a PC and so could tell me the difference in detail and whether it is really worth it.

I mean, does having these termis installed with a PC give the engine quite a lot more power, enough to cause damage?

Also, is this true (another question!!) - My bike, fortunatley was very well looked after before I bought it, It had 3 services before it hit 3k and one included a major, with cambelt changes, however the cambelt change must have been at least 3 years ago (I can't remember the date on the receipt) but I bet it's closer to 4. Should, even though the bike has only done 5k, I be looking at changing the belts since they've been on the bike for so long?

Basically, they're like 7k from their mileage warrant BUT the time they've been in is a long time and does this effect them also?

Cheers,
Boog's

[nelly]

The belts need changing every 2 years or 12k miles. I know a few bikes that have gone 3 or 4 years "with no problems" but i also know some that have failed. Basically, it's your call but if you are unlucky, it'll cost you dear.

As for the PC/eprom question. The Ducati eproms were never the best fuelling chips out there. my suggestion would be to first get the bike setup properly as is. The eproms aren't plug and play. To get the best from them you need the TPS setting up, the throttles balancing and the CO setting up for each cylinder. This needs doing whenever you switch the eprom. At the very least the CO needs setting up.
Once that's done give it a try. You may be sorted.
If your not happy then look at sorting any problems out. You could try another eprom. JHP do good maps for £30 or so.
The FIM is probably the best eprom you could drop in. It's dual mapped (one for each cylinder) has an increased rev limiter and mod'd ignition. They usually work great straight out of the box, but are programable with the correct software and dyno time. They sell for £125 + VAT.
The PC is a useful tool for bikes with lots of mod's, where no direct replacment eprom has been written. It will work fine on a bike like yours with minimal mod's but in light of the eprom availability it's expensive. It's better value for the newer bikes with non chipable ECU's tho.
With just Termi's in place, you're not going to gain that many extra hp's. The motor is more than capable of handling them. The PC won't give any more than a well set up eprom either. What it gives is the ability to fine tune any glitches out, but if you use a well mapped eprom, that is setup correctly, they aren't really there anyway......

[Boogle748]

OK,

So the chip that came with the Termi's, which is the chip in the bike now (so not the standard one).. does this need setting up or replacing? Is that what's called the eprom?

Thanks for the belt info, Nelly. Looks like it's a £500 service time

Boog's!

[Vinnychoff]

how about fitting the belts your self?
Vinny

[Boogle748]

My title may suggest a slightly different question, but is it hard to change the belts?
I would gladly give it a go unless you needed fancy tools and a degree in twin mechanics!

Boog's

[nelly]

Originally Posted by Boogle748

OK,

So the chip that came with the Termi's, which is the chip in the bike now (so not the standard one).. does this need setting up or replacing? Is that what's called the eprom?

Thanks for the belt info, Nelly. Looks like it's a £500 service time

Boog's!

In short, yes. The fuelling needs setting up correctly. This "should" be done at every service or when the eprom is fitted. I say should as I see bikes that still have the tamperproof paint in place on the TPS, many services later
As for the service, again, it's your call but as the bikes out of warranty and whilst to keep the history "to the book" it could be a big one, but do some of the work yourself or discuss with the garage about what really needs doing because of the low mileage, you could save a few quid. Just make sure you know what you are getting for your outlay. There's only parts and labour in the cost. To reduce it you either don't fit parts and/or do less labour. Getting a "full service" for a couple hundred is nigh impossible when the parts come to £160 or so

[DukeDesmo]

Originally Posted by Boogle748

My title may suggest a slightly different question, but is it hard to change the belts?
I would gladly give it a go unless you needed fancy tools and a degree in twin mechanics!

Boog's

Changing the belts is easy enough but how confident would you be with the tension?

[Boogle748]

Originally Posted by DukeDesmo

Changing the belts is easy enough but how confident would you be with the tension?

Answer: I'm not doing it!

I've decided that come 6k (currently 5,400 on clock) i'm gonna pay for a major service. Job done then, have the belts changed, all lubricants replaced, valve heads checked- the full business. This thing is getting looked after!

By the way, i am new to riding and so wouldn't do this anyway BUT my friends has read in MCN that once comfortable with gear changing at full throttle or basically when you're hammering it, you should be changing without clutching but is this still right with a duke... I know the clutches are dry and this makes me think set up might be different?

Thanks again for the input, guys.

Boog's

[Carbon749]

Originally Posted by Boogle748

Answer:
By the way, i am new to riding and so wouldn't do this anyway BUT my friends has read in MCN that once comfortable with gear changing at full throttle or basically when you're hammering it, you should be changing without clutching but is this still right with a duke... I know the clutches are dry and this makes me think set up might be different?

Thanks again for the input, guys.

Boog's

I recently had a clutch master cylinder leak so tried to ride doing clutchless up changes as much as possible.

No need to be riding flat out or anything like that. Just ride normally, when your ready to change up, wind the throttle of a tad as you apply pressure with boot to change gear. Next gear drops in and away you go. key is just reducing the rev's prior to the upchange. This reduces the loading on the gearbox and will allow a clean change.

Only works on up changes.

[Boogle748]

That's good to know, cheers Carbon.

I will, when comfortable try this as he claimed it's better for the bike, in terms of the box and the obviously less use of the clutch.

Boog's